So, I have use Brother Corbulo for a few games, and I have a few thoughts. Brother Corbulo is worth the points, as long as you use him correctly. Although he is a decent character for challenges, as long as he is not against a PF type weapon, he main strength is keeping other units alive. In a recent tournament, Corbulo absorbed 12 plasma wounds that would have otherwise went into a terminator squad (so 5 termies died, instead of all 10).
Cost -
While he is worth the points, especially when keeping strong units alive, remember that he is adding 105 points, and a kill point to that unit, so if you are not careful you will be putting more eggs into the same basket.
Mobility -
He has no inherent mobility, so you are going to either want to put him in a vehicle, or put him with a unit strong enough to survive on foot (like terminators). If he is going to spend more than 2 turns in a vehicle, you are probably better off with a cheaper Sanguinary Priest - if you are not using his 2+ FNP, you are wasting 55 points. While I have used him successfully with terminators, another good use for him would probably be with a group of Sterngaurd, in a turn 1 Drop Pod assault. He will significantly prolong the life of the Sterngard unit, as long as you can position him right.
Positioning -
The hardest part about getting you point's worth from Corbulo is positioning. Up close, it is easy to make sure he is the closest model to the enemy, but from across the board, it is very difficult, especially if your unit is trying to get cover from a wall (while not giving the enemy a cover save from the same wall). If he is the closest to the enemy's middle, he probably won't be the closest to shots coming from the table edges. One way to deal with this is to put the unit close to a table edge, to limit which directions shots can come from (so it is easier to block those directions, although this also limits your unit's threat radius).
With terminators, you have another option, which I discovered accidentally. A unit with 10 terminators and Corbulo is probably a safe place to put your warlord. This unit would have 3 characters (counting the SGT), so the idea is to position Corbulo where the firepower is most likely to come from, and place your warlord and SGT so that they would be the closest target from other directions - this will allow them to bounce wounds to Corbulo from 2 additional directions (as long as they stay withing 6").
Thursday, August 30, 2012
Wednesday, August 29, 2012
2000 BA vs DA + IG
So, this was the 3rd, and final game of the tournament Saturday. Again, I didn't have any pictures, so I am using Vassal to illustrate. Like all of the games at the tournament, it was 2000 points purge the alien. I won the roll, but I didn't see anything that was a serious long range threat to me, so I let him go first (to get the drop on his Valkyrie). This is from memory, and the game was pretty short, so the score and the order of events might be slightly off, and the pictures might not sync completely with the text (because I did the story and the pictures separately)
My list is the same as the last one:
Stormraven with Assault Termies and DC Dread
Stormraven with 10 DC (7 bolters, 3 axes + pistols) and DC Dread
1 Whirlwind
An Epistolary Librarian, 10 Terminators (with 2 CML) and Corbulo.
DA + IG List:
3 DA Tactical Squads (MM and plasma?)
1 Devastator Squad (3 Missile launchers and 1 las cannon)
Logan with 5 terminators
IG Allies:
Marbo
Valkyrie
Company Command Squad
Platoon Command Squad
30 Man Infantry Blob (With, I think, 3 autocannons)
Turn 1 - Even though it was night fighting, he had some terrible rolls, so the whirlwind and the CML from my terminators killed 7 of 10 of the closest tactical squad, including the MM. His devastators managed to kill 1 terminator.
Score: BA - 0 / DA - 0
_________________________________________________________________________________
Turn 2 DA - Marbo comes in behind my Whirlwind, and scores a hit with his det charge, but rolls 1 and a 2, so he only gets a glancing blow. (Marbo would have probably done alot more damage to my terminators, but he was going for first blood. Also, my terminator squad, with librarian and corbulo really didn't do anything this game - besides killing Marbo, so it probably wouldn't have mattered). His death wing fails to come in, but his Valkyrie comes in.
Turn 2 BA - Both Stormravens come in, one flyies up to his Valkyrie and wrecks it with the MM; Seven of the 10 IG burn up in the crash.
The other Stormraven, loaded with DC, comes on near his devastator team (I figured "bring it down" and 3 autocannons was more of a threat that a marine Devastator Squad).
I also move my librarian to the end of my terminator squad, thinking about breaking him off to kill Marbo next turn. I move my Whirlwind, so that Marbo doesn't auto hit it, and shoot at Company Command Squad.
Score: BA - 2 (Inc First Blood) / DA - 0
_________________________________________________________________________________
Turn 3 DA - Marbo killed the Whirlwind with a melta bomb. His terminators fail their reserve roll again. He shoots some stuff, including a melta at my stormraven, but fails to damage it.
Turn 3 BA - Not wanting to mess up any of my charges, I decide that my entire terminator squad has nothing better to shoot at than Marbo, so I leave the Librarian with the squad, and gun him down. One DC Dread finishes off the Valkyrie passengers, and the assault terminators attack a squad of tacticals (he was moving them toward the Stormraven to shoot it, and to support the terminators that failed to arrive). My other DC Dread killed the devastator squad, and my DC assaulted the remaining tactical squad. My Terminators kill 1 of the tacticals in the squad of 3, and they break again and run off the board.
Score: BA - 5 / DA - 1
_________________________________________________________________________________
Turn 4 DA - His terminators try to come down near my assault terminators, in order to support the tactical squad, but a teleporting mishap places them behind the wall over by the IG blog. At this point, he has lost the game, as it is very unlikely that they will get into the action before the end of the game. Some melee plays out, both of his remaining tactical squads break and run.
Turn 4 BA - I assault his tactical squads again, killing both of them. The DC dread that killed the Valkyrie crew assaults the IG blog, and kills several of them, and I believe they fled of the board.
Score: BA - 8 / DA - 1
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Turn 5 - His terminators roll a 2 for difficult terrain, so they don't get anywhere, and I finish up the assaults (if any were still going)
He decides there is no need to roll for a 6th turn, and concedes the game.
Final Score: BA - 8 / DA -1
_________________________________________________________________________________
My list is the same as the last one:
Stormraven with Assault Termies and DC Dread
Stormraven with 10 DC (7 bolters, 3 axes + pistols) and DC Dread
1 Whirlwind
An Epistolary Librarian, 10 Terminators (with 2 CML) and Corbulo.
DA + IG List:
3 DA Tactical Squads (MM and plasma?)
1 Devastator Squad (3 Missile launchers and 1 las cannon)
Logan with 5 terminators
IG Allies:
Marbo
Valkyrie
Company Command Squad
Platoon Command Squad
30 Man Infantry Blob (With, I think, 3 autocannons)
 |
| Set Up |
Turn 1 - Even though it was night fighting, he had some terrible rolls, so the whirlwind and the CML from my terminators killed 7 of 10 of the closest tactical squad, including the MM. His devastators managed to kill 1 terminator.
Score: BA - 0 / DA - 0
_________________________________________________________________________________
 |
| End of Turn 1 |
Turn 2 DA - Marbo comes in behind my Whirlwind, and scores a hit with his det charge, but rolls 1 and a 2, so he only gets a glancing blow. (Marbo would have probably done alot more damage to my terminators, but he was going for first blood. Also, my terminator squad, with librarian and corbulo really didn't do anything this game - besides killing Marbo, so it probably wouldn't have mattered). His death wing fails to come in, but his Valkyrie comes in.
Turn 2 BA - Both Stormravens come in, one flyies up to his Valkyrie and wrecks it with the MM; Seven of the 10 IG burn up in the crash.
The other Stormraven, loaded with DC, comes on near his devastator team (I figured "bring it down" and 3 autocannons was more of a threat that a marine Devastator Squad).
I also move my librarian to the end of my terminator squad, thinking about breaking him off to kill Marbo next turn. I move my Whirlwind, so that Marbo doesn't auto hit it, and shoot at Company Command Squad.
Score: BA - 2 (Inc First Blood) / DA - 0
_________________________________________________________________________________
 |
| Turn 2 |
Turn 3 BA - Not wanting to mess up any of my charges, I decide that my entire terminator squad has nothing better to shoot at than Marbo, so I leave the Librarian with the squad, and gun him down. One DC Dread finishes off the Valkyrie passengers, and the assault terminators attack a squad of tacticals (he was moving them toward the Stormraven to shoot it, and to support the terminators that failed to arrive). My other DC Dread killed the devastator squad, and my DC assaulted the remaining tactical squad. My Terminators kill 1 of the tacticals in the squad of 3, and they break again and run off the board.
Score: BA - 5 / DA - 1
_________________________________________________________________________________
 |
| Turn 3 |
Turn 4 DA - His terminators try to come down near my assault terminators, in order to support the tactical squad, but a teleporting mishap places them behind the wall over by the IG blog. At this point, he has lost the game, as it is very unlikely that they will get into the action before the end of the game. Some melee plays out, both of his remaining tactical squads break and run.
Turn 4 BA - I assault his tactical squads again, killing both of them. The DC dread that killed the Valkyrie crew assaults the IG blog, and kills several of them, and I believe they fled of the board.
Score: BA - 8 / DA - 1
_________________________________________________________________________________
 |
| Turn 4 |
Turn 5 - His terminators roll a 2 for difficult terrain, so they don't get anywhere, and I finish up the assaults (if any were still going)
He decides there is no need to roll for a 6th turn, and concedes the game.
Final Score: BA - 8 / DA -1
_________________________________________________________________________________
 |
| End of Game |
Battle Report - BA vs SW
So, Second game. 10 minutes before the tournament, I realized that I had an illegal list, so I had do make do with the models I had on me. This basically amounted to me playing with an Epistolary (which I normally wouldn't spend the points on), and playing about 50 points short. (I was already nervous when I saw how much raw fire power I saw in the other armies)
My List was:
Stormraven with Assault Termies and DC Dread
Stormraven with 10 DC (7 bolters, 3 axes + pistols) and DC Dread
1 Whirlwind
An Epistolary Librarian, 10 Terminators (with 2 CML) and Corbulo.
SW:
3 units of SW tacticals troops (I don't remember all the names of his units)
1 Priest leading an elite unit (10 guys with double plasma pistols) / outflanking
4 Las/Plas Razorbacks (each RB also had HK missile and double stormbolters - "to pad the weapon
destroyed results")
Big blog of IG (3 infantry squads, with a Commisar, and 3 autocannons), and a platoon command
squad
Valkyrie
 |
| Set Up (Later I move the pond, because it was not right there, exactly) |
Turn 1 - BA. It's night fighting. My CML take out one of the razorbacks, my whirlwind takes hits the second floor of the warehouse, and takes out the autocannon and a 5 more guard.
Turn 1 - SW. He misses with both las cannons that are in range.
Score: BA - 2 (unit + first blood) / SW - 0
_________________________________________________________________________________
Turn 2 - BA. Both Storm ravens come in, each destroying a razorback. Last game I hovered these, moving flat out, so that I wouldn't lose everything if they got shot down, this time I took a change and zoomed both of them. My Whirlwind hit the 3rd floor, and took out another autocannon and some more IG.
Turn 2 - SW. His super unit of double plasma pistols came out and shot up my terminators. With his ability to re-roll 1's, he scored something like 18 wounds with plasma pistols. 1 Terminator made a invulnerable save, so the first 5 shots took down 4 terminators. Then the wounds got to my librarian. I look out sir (ed) the wounds from the librarian to Corbula, and he took 10 of them before dying, then my librarian took 2, and I lost one more terminator - Corbulo definitely payed for himself.
Score: BA - 4 / SW - 3 (Libby + warlord + Corbula)
_________________________________________________________________________________
 |
| End of Turn 2 |
Turn 3 - BA. I unloaded my Stormravens, and moved into his troops, killing alot of them. My Wirlwind missed the 3rd floor of the warehouse. My terminators tried to charge the outflankers, but overwatch killed the SGT (failed his LoS), which, combined with weak roll, left them out of charge range.
Turn 3 - SW. His outflankers finished off my terminator squad. His Valkyrie came on missed my stormraven. (Note: the Valkyrie isn't pictured because I forgot about it until just now. It came on, missed, got velocity locked, and literally did nothing the whole game)
Score: BA - 4 / SW 4
__________________________________________________________________________________
 |
| End of BA Turn 3 |
Turn 4 - BA. One of me stormravens flew off the board (to protect itself from the Valkyrie), the other hovered and velocity locked the Valkyrie with the MM and missiles, and took out the other Razorback with the TL Autocannons. The DC, Dreads, and Assault Marines tore through his marines. My assault marines started heading for his platoon command squad (bottom floor of warehouse).
Turn 4 - SW. His plasma squad started to come toward the fight, but they never get withing pistol range of anything for the rest of the game. He moves his platoon command squad further from my assault terminators (and into Line of Sight of my Death Company). He first rank, second rank fires into my assault terminators with the blob left in the building, and kills 2 assault terminators.
Score: BA - 4 / SW 4 (I must be forgetting something, because I don't remember us being tied for 2 turns, maybe he has characters in his units or something, but it doesn't really matter)
_________________________________________________________________________________
 |
| End of SW Turn 4 |
Turn 5 - Between my Stormravens and DC Dreads, I shot / killed the stragglers from the 3 units of wolves. That left my DC free to bolter down his platoon command squad. His plasma squad moved across the board, but still couldn't get in range of my assault terminators, since they moved further into the building, it order to be able to assault the IG blob. We didn't get another turn.
Final Score: BA - 8 / SW 4.
 |
| End of Game |
Thursday, August 23, 2012
2000 Point Tourney List - Purge the Alien
So my local game store has started having monthly, 2000 point, purge the alien tournaments. The prize is part of the entry fee in store credit, so I thought I'd give it a try. Since I know the game will be purge the alien, I am not worried about scoring units, and tried to keep kill points down (I know I could have made a few less kill points, but eh).
Squad 1:
Librarian (probably with re-roll power)
10 Tactical Terminators (with 2 Cyclone Missile Launchers)
Brother Corbulo
I know this unit is a lot of points, but it is very durable (Corbulo will absorb the small arms fire, and LoS the instants death attacks to a Termie). It has a good amount of fire power (which will be twin-linked because of the librarian) and it can handle itself in melee. As an added bonus, the terminators will provide cover for my 2 Whirlwinds.
Squad 2:
Not really a "squad" but the 2 whirlwinds I've already mentioned.
Squad 3:
Bloodraven (Assault Cannon and MM)
10 Death Company (7 Bolters, 3 Power Axes with Pistols)
1 Death Company Dread
I liked the Furiouso Dread for the +1 armor, but I still painted my dread black because this meets my troop requirement, and the +1 attack for rage isn't bad, and neither is fleet? The dread is meant to be a 1 man killing team, to take out small targets, SMU, lootas, etc. If need be, he can also assist the DC, but their primary function is going to be hunting TeQ (with 15 Str 6, AP 2 attacks on the charge)
Squad 4:
Bloodraven (Assault Cannon and MM)
5 Assault Terminators (3 with claws, 2 with hammer and shield)
Furiouso Dread Librarian
I realize that the Furiouso Dread Librarian is probably my weakest choice, but I happened to have exactly the right amount of points, and an empty spot on the transport. I have a Dread with 2 power fists that I could paint up, but I bought the librarian because I saw it on consignment, and have never used it (because it is probably not with the points, but it will give me some mobility on the field, once I am unloaded from transport). This squad is primarily for MeQ hunting, but won't suck against anything.
I decided not to put Corbulo with the assault terminators, even though they could use the FnP, because he is a lot less useful in melee.
Squad 1:
Librarian (probably with re-roll power)
10 Tactical Terminators (with 2 Cyclone Missile Launchers)
Brother Corbulo
I know this unit is a lot of points, but it is very durable (Corbulo will absorb the small arms fire, and LoS the instants death attacks to a Termie). It has a good amount of fire power (which will be twin-linked because of the librarian) and it can handle itself in melee. As an added bonus, the terminators will provide cover for my 2 Whirlwinds.
Squad 2:
Not really a "squad" but the 2 whirlwinds I've already mentioned.
Squad 3:
Bloodraven (Assault Cannon and MM)
10 Death Company (7 Bolters, 3 Power Axes with Pistols)
1 Death Company Dread
I liked the Furiouso Dread for the +1 armor, but I still painted my dread black because this meets my troop requirement, and the +1 attack for rage isn't bad, and neither is fleet? The dread is meant to be a 1 man killing team, to take out small targets, SMU, lootas, etc. If need be, he can also assist the DC, but their primary function is going to be hunting TeQ (with 15 Str 6, AP 2 attacks on the charge)
Squad 4:
Bloodraven (Assault Cannon and MM)
5 Assault Terminators (3 with claws, 2 with hammer and shield)
Furiouso Dread Librarian
I realize that the Furiouso Dread Librarian is probably my weakest choice, but I happened to have exactly the right amount of points, and an empty spot on the transport. I have a Dread with 2 power fists that I could paint up, but I bought the librarian because I saw it on consignment, and have never used it (because it is probably not with the points, but it will give me some mobility on the field, once I am unloaded from transport). This squad is primarily for MeQ hunting, but won't suck against anything.
I decided not to put Corbulo with the assault terminators, even though they could use the FnP, because he is a lot less useful in melee.
Monday, August 20, 2012
2000 BA vs Orks
Right after the Necrons, I played the same player's Ork army. It was too late to change lists, so I was still built for scoring vs KP (even though I built the list for a tournament that only plays KP), but at least I didn't combat squad anything.
His list was
3 units of loots (I think 14 per squad)
2 units of Squig Cannons
a unit of 30 shoota boyz
a large unit of nob bikers
2 ork fighter planes (don't remember which specific one, but they each had 3 TL guns, I think Str 7)
Turn 1 BA. I got to go first again. This time I kept the assault marines on the table, behind the bikes (so that they can charge sooner - maybe turn 2. I rushed forward, using the bikes as a screen. I have fought his bikes before so, while I respected them, I wasn't afraid of them (apparently he reconfigured them, or maybe my list was just that bad this time, because they were a lot more powerful this time). My whirlwind killed some lootas.
Turn 1 Orks. His bikers attacked mine, and even though he rolled badly (his boss got three 1's to wound), he wiped my bikes out (the librarian won his challenge, so he survived, and had to flee, but was caught - so ATSKNF locked him back into combat. His lootas killed a whirlwind, giving him first blood.
Turn 2 BA - I thought about sending my jump marines into the bike combat, but I decide to jump over it instead, and try to get some points while his bikes were tied up. (Not wanting to give him more targets for his powerfists). I do unload my death company, so that they can charge the bikes next turn. Unfortunately, his bikes finish mine off my librarian this turn (I was hoping that a challenge could keep my librarian alive another turn). I did manage to assault his shoota Boyz with one unit of assault marines.
Turn 2 orks - His bikes shoot and charge into my death company. His shooting removed all the power axes (He killed 7 to shooting), so I had 3 guys with bolters. The death company died. His shooting took out most of the assault marines who were not already in combat. His planes came in an destroyed a rhino, and my other whirlwind. My marines were, again, pinned coming out of the Rhino.
Turn 3 BA - Knowing that the tactical squad in the river is not going to get away, I move them toward the bikes, to maximize my rapid fire shots. I position my 3 assault marines not in combat to double charge his artillery units. His overwatch kills my SGT (I am not sure that artillery can shoot overwatch, but since it says "cannot snap-shot" in the "movement" part of artillery, my opponent argued that the no snap shot only applies if the artillery moves, and there was nothing saying he couldn't fire overwatch. I am pretty sure I read that if you cannot snap-shot then you couldn't fire overwatch, but I couldn't find the exact rule, and eventually I quit arguing because I realized that even if I double charged, and killed both squads of squigs, it wouldn't change the fact that I was about to be tabled.
Turn 3 - Orks - His bikes killed my tactical squad, his lootas killed most of my other tactical squad, and I lose an assault marine. By the end of this turn, I have 1 assault marine not in combat, 6 assault marines in combat (I am winning against the ork boyz), and 3 tactical marines. We call the game.
Thoughts. Normally I build pretty good lists, but even considering that I was built for scoring, and my opponent built for KP in a KP game, my list was not good. You can't win a scoring game if you don't have any units left on the table. I think part of the problem was all the points put into bikes. Maybe I used them wrong, they are not assault bikes, so charging them at the enemy is no good. Using them as a screening unit didn't work well, because if you are screening something into melee, then the bikes are going to end up in melee also - which they are not good for (at least not against a real assault unit). They aren't scoring, so they can't replace tactical marines in rhinos. I am not sure what to do with the bikes, but for now I am taking them out of the list.
His list was
3 units of loots (I think 14 per squad)
2 units of Squig Cannons
a unit of 30 shoota boyz
a large unit of nob bikers
2 ork fighter planes (don't remember which specific one, but they each had 3 TL guns, I think Str 7)
Turn 1 BA. I got to go first again. This time I kept the assault marines on the table, behind the bikes (so that they can charge sooner - maybe turn 2. I rushed forward, using the bikes as a screen. I have fought his bikes before so, while I respected them, I wasn't afraid of them (apparently he reconfigured them, or maybe my list was just that bad this time, because they were a lot more powerful this time). My whirlwind killed some lootas.
 |
| BA Turn 1, right after movement phase |
Turn 2 BA - I thought about sending my jump marines into the bike combat, but I decide to jump over it instead, and try to get some points while his bikes were tied up. (Not wanting to give him more targets for his powerfists). I do unload my death company, so that they can charge the bikes next turn. Unfortunately, his bikes finish mine off my librarian this turn (I was hoping that a challenge could keep my librarian alive another turn). I did manage to assault his shoota Boyz with one unit of assault marines.
 |
| BA Turn 2, just before assault |
 |
| Ork Turn 2, after shooting. |
 | |
| Orks killing my Death Company |
Turn 3 - Orks - His bikes killed my tactical squad, his lootas killed most of my other tactical squad, and I lose an assault marine. By the end of this turn, I have 1 assault marine not in combat, 6 assault marines in combat (I am winning against the ork boyz), and 3 tactical marines. We call the game.
Thoughts. Normally I build pretty good lists, but even considering that I was built for scoring, and my opponent built for KP in a KP game, my list was not good. You can't win a scoring game if you don't have any units left on the table. I think part of the problem was all the points put into bikes. Maybe I used them wrong, they are not assault bikes, so charging them at the enemy is no good. Using them as a screening unit didn't work well, because if you are screening something into melee, then the bikes are going to end up in melee also - which they are not good for (at least not against a real assault unit). They aren't scoring, so they can't replace tactical marines in rhinos. I am not sure what to do with the bikes, but for now I am taking them out of the list.
2000 BA vs Necrons
Our local 40k store, Orbits, has been running escalation tournaments every month. Since I have been playing for a while, and I have a group of people I already play with, I have not been attending these. They have recently added monthly 2k tournaments the last Saturday of each month. I decided to start going to these (prize is store credit, which is always cool).
I ran some training games against one of my normal opponents and, for the first time in a while, got my ass handed to me (I have, obviously lost before, but rarely do I get to turn 4 and agree that there is no point in continuing further).
So I tried some new things in this list:
8 Bikes, with melta attack bike. (2 Meltaguns, powersword and melta bomb on SGT)
Librarian Epistolary on Bike
Sanguinary Priest on Bike
2 units of Tac Squads in Rhinos (flamer and MM, SGT had PS and Melta Bombs)
1 unit of 10 death company in rhinos (3 guys with power axes and pistols, rest had bolters)
2 units of 10 assault marines (2 flamers, SGT had PS, combat shield, and melta bombs)
2 Whirlwinds
I don't remember all he had, but it was something like
2 units of troops (not immortals) with gaus
2 death mark companies (with characters with some STR 8, AP 1, Instant death flamer template)
2 Transports
1 Death Ray plane
1 Defense Bastion with quad-gun
Other stuff (including HQ) that were irrelevent.
My plan had been to rush everything forward, using the bikes to give my Rhinos cover saves. Then I was going to unload all 3 rhinos, and shoot 60 bolter shots into an enemy unit. I really didn't think about what was going to happen next, which is unusual for me. I didn't even finish the mathhammer to determine how many kills I would get with those 60 bolter shots against different types of armies - maybe I had gotten cocky. Well, this game humbled me some, because I made several bad choices, starting with the list. I know that the tournament, while rolling for set up, only plays "purge the alien" mission. As I was making my list, I was thinking about strategies for relic, and how many scoring units I could fit - none of which should have been relevant to the list I was supposed to be building (low kill count, awesome kill power). My second mistake is that, thinking the MSU would give me more fire control, I combat squaded everything - almost doubling the kill points available to my enemy.
Turn 1 BA. It was night fighting, because of his orb. I moved bikes up. My melta attack bike hit his bastion and glanced it (best I could do at 13"). My whirlwinds hit a few guys, all but one of which stood back up.
Turn 1 Necron. His lightning killed a whirlwind. He hit my bikes with several ap 1 staff attacks, but they either made the cover save or the feel no pain save every time (I rolled 5+ on 4 of 6 rolls).
Turn 2 - BA. I moved my other melta bikes up and shot the building again. 2 hits, no penetrating (even in melta range). I decided not to assault it, because there was cover, and I didn't want to be groups around the building (at this point, my bikes were invincible, so I didn't want to commit them to taking out a building). Two combat squads (other 2 failed even with DoA re-roll) of my assault marines drop down and flame some stuff, most of which gets back up (he had a res orb)
Turn 2 - BA. Game ends (not officially, but pretty much). My warlord power made him subtract one from his reserve rolls, so only 1 death mark unit comes in. It lands next to my bikes, marks them, and then flames them with something that ignores cover, is AP 1, and causes instant death - they are also str 8 vs leadership, but the deathmark makes them wound on a 2+ anyway - so most of my bikes melt away. His lightning pops the other red rhino, and both Combat squads fail their leadership and become pinned. His shooting also killed some bikes and some assault marines.
Turn 3 - BA. Since I can't engage his deathmarks because my tactical marines are pinned (and I wasn't going to charge with the bikes - I assumed they would still get their overwatch of instant doom). I hold my bikes back (just my librarian and 2 bikes, and only because they were out of flamer template range). My other jump marines come down and flame some troops, all but one of which gets back up. I also move my death company up and unload them - shooting into the death marks.
Turn 3 - Necrons. The Deathray flyer comes on, the transport that delivered the deathmarks flies off the board. The death ray kills 2 bikes, and some death company, and some tactical marines. He starts to pull one of his units of troops around the bastion.
Turn 4 - BA. Moved my librarian around bastion to team up with lone jump marine in that squad. At this point, the only way I can not lose is to clear the table, so there is no point in playing conservative and trying to save points. In assault I kill the death marks, and some necrons that came out of the bastion.
Turn 4 Necrons. His other death marks came on, killed the librarian, the assault marine, the death company, and a bunch of tactical marines, and we called the game.
I ran some training games against one of my normal opponents and, for the first time in a while, got my ass handed to me (I have, obviously lost before, but rarely do I get to turn 4 and agree that there is no point in continuing further).
So I tried some new things in this list:
8 Bikes, with melta attack bike. (2 Meltaguns, powersword and melta bomb on SGT)
Librarian Epistolary on Bike
Sanguinary Priest on Bike
2 units of Tac Squads in Rhinos (flamer and MM, SGT had PS and Melta Bombs)
1 unit of 10 death company in rhinos (3 guys with power axes and pistols, rest had bolters)
2 units of 10 assault marines (2 flamers, SGT had PS, combat shield, and melta bombs)
2 Whirlwinds
I don't remember all he had, but it was something like
2 units of troops (not immortals) with gaus
2 death mark companies (with characters with some STR 8, AP 1, Instant death flamer template)
2 Transports
1 Death Ray plane
1 Defense Bastion with quad-gun
Other stuff (including HQ) that were irrelevent.
 |
| BA Forces |
 | |
| BA Reserves + Stuff in Rhinos |
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| Necron Forces |
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| Necron Reserves. The transports are wire with lights that turn on and off. |
My plan had been to rush everything forward, using the bikes to give my Rhinos cover saves. Then I was going to unload all 3 rhinos, and shoot 60 bolter shots into an enemy unit. I really didn't think about what was going to happen next, which is unusual for me. I didn't even finish the mathhammer to determine how many kills I would get with those 60 bolter shots against different types of armies - maybe I had gotten cocky. Well, this game humbled me some, because I made several bad choices, starting with the list. I know that the tournament, while rolling for set up, only plays "purge the alien" mission. As I was making my list, I was thinking about strategies for relic, and how many scoring units I could fit - none of which should have been relevant to the list I was supposed to be building (low kill count, awesome kill power). My second mistake is that, thinking the MSU would give me more fire control, I combat squaded everything - almost doubling the kill points available to my enemy.
Turn 1 BA. It was night fighting, because of his orb. I moved bikes up. My melta attack bike hit his bastion and glanced it (best I could do at 13"). My whirlwinds hit a few guys, all but one of which stood back up.
Turn 1 Necron. His lightning killed a whirlwind. He hit my bikes with several ap 1 staff attacks, but they either made the cover save or the feel no pain save every time (I rolled 5+ on 4 of 6 rolls).
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| BA End of Turn 2 |
Turn 2 - BA. I moved my other melta bikes up and shot the building again. 2 hits, no penetrating (even in melta range). I decided not to assault it, because there was cover, and I didn't want to be groups around the building (at this point, my bikes were invincible, so I didn't want to commit them to taking out a building). Two combat squads (other 2 failed even with DoA re-roll) of my assault marines drop down and flame some stuff, most of which gets back up (he had a res orb)
Turn 2 - BA. Game ends (not officially, but pretty much). My warlord power made him subtract one from his reserve rolls, so only 1 death mark unit comes in. It lands next to my bikes, marks them, and then flames them with something that ignores cover, is AP 1, and causes instant death - they are also str 8 vs leadership, but the deathmark makes them wound on a 2+ anyway - so most of my bikes melt away. His lightning pops the other red rhino, and both Combat squads fail their leadership and become pinned. His shooting also killed some bikes and some assault marines.
Turn 3 - BA. Since I can't engage his deathmarks because my tactical marines are pinned (and I wasn't going to charge with the bikes - I assumed they would still get their overwatch of instant doom). I hold my bikes back (just my librarian and 2 bikes, and only because they were out of flamer template range). My other jump marines come down and flame some troops, all but one of which gets back up. I also move my death company up and unload them - shooting into the death marks.
Turn 3 - Necrons. The Deathray flyer comes on, the transport that delivered the deathmarks flies off the board. The death ray kills 2 bikes, and some death company, and some tactical marines. He starts to pull one of his units of troops around the bastion.
Turn 4 - BA. Moved my librarian around bastion to team up with lone jump marine in that squad. At this point, the only way I can not lose is to clear the table, so there is no point in playing conservative and trying to save points. In assault I kill the death marks, and some necrons that came out of the bastion.
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| Just before assault of BA turn 4. |
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| Start of Necron turn 4, before shooting phase. |
Monday, August 6, 2012
Sanguinary Guard as troops
The last of the potential BA scoring units (barring special scenario rules) is the Sanguinary Guard. I have never actually played with them, but I still go over how I would use them, and how I would equip them.
First, we have to define the roles that they fit into. Before I started this article, I thought I would not take them as troops because they were too expensive. Then I realized that 5 of them is 200 points, plus the cost on Dante. I figure if you didn't take Dante, you would take a librarian with a jump pack (about same capability - Captain is probably a little closer, but you are probably not taking him). Dante costs about 100 points more than the librarian, so if you took Dante to make the Guard scoring, you would have to divide those 100 points by the number of SG squads that you took (making the total cost of 5 more like 220-225 points). So 5 Sanguinary Guard costs the same as 10 assault marines, with 2 flamers, led my a sgt with a power sword and combat shield. Both of these shots can absorb 90 non-plasma, non-ap 2 or 3 shots.
This makes them actually very comparable to Assault marines. In shooting, 1 SG = 2 marines, so the 5 marines vs 10 doesn't matter too much. In assault, the SG all have power weapons, and are immune to most power weapons, so they are more combat-y there. In fact, they only place SG really hurts is against AP 2 and 1 weapons (plasma guns, vindicators, etc). 5 plasma wounds will hurt an assault squad, they will push the SG of the table.
On the other hand, the SG is another unit (like DC) where non-sergeants can take power fists (which means they cannot be blocked in challenges), and they don't lose any attacks by doing it, which could make them decent terminator hunters (maybe something like 3 with swords and 2 with Fists)?
Their roles are very similar to the Assault Marines roles (at least the ones that matter).
1. They can't take a rhino or razorback, and their weapons are still only range 12, so they are completely unsuitable for any back-field objective holding.
2. Running across the board. They are the same as Assault marines here, just as durable, and just as vulnerable to massed fire.
3. Jump in / Disruption. They are even more expensive than jump troops, so I would not be taking any chances trying to get into infernus pistol range (unless the unit was going to drop in with Dante). They don't have real flamers, and I probably wouldn't get hand flamers because they are pretty weak). Overall, they don't rock in this role, because the ranged weapons available to them aren't disruptful enough (unless you took 5 plasma pistols)
4. In an Assault Vehicle. Same as assault marines. Honestly, I like this better for SG than for Assault marines, because SG are SO MUCH better at hand to hand than shooting, that they really cannot fulfill their potential without getting into hand to hand (unless they are equipped as with plasma pistols or infernous pistols. They would have to take the stormraven, since land raiders can't carry jump troops, which is still putting a lot of expensive eggs in 1 basket.
Honestly, I still don't think I like SG in the role of scorer, unless it is to grab an objective in the last turn. There aren't enough of them - 5 SG might be equal to 10 Assault Marines in their ability to survive and kill, but 10 marines can combat squad and hit two targets, or split so that 1 unit covers the other (who has a relic), etc, at least I don't think I would make an army where they were my only scorers; more like fast terminators who happen to have the ability to score.
As for gear options - I think I have already covered it - Infernous pistol for "walkers" and plasma pistols for droppers, if I upgrade the weapons at all - if I am dropping a unit with Dante, I'd give them a few more infernous pistols, otherwise I would probably skip it (unless I was going for the plasma drop squad)
Masks - OK. They are like pinning, nice if it happened, but unless you have a way to lower leadership, this isn't likely to happen enough to pay for itself.
Getting tired, but banner - don't like it. We're already fearless, and the stuff that isn't has ATSKNF. Occasionally it could come in handy, but the points are better spend elsewhere
First, we have to define the roles that they fit into. Before I started this article, I thought I would not take them as troops because they were too expensive. Then I realized that 5 of them is 200 points, plus the cost on Dante. I figure if you didn't take Dante, you would take a librarian with a jump pack (about same capability - Captain is probably a little closer, but you are probably not taking him). Dante costs about 100 points more than the librarian, so if you took Dante to make the Guard scoring, you would have to divide those 100 points by the number of SG squads that you took (making the total cost of 5 more like 220-225 points). So 5 Sanguinary Guard costs the same as 10 assault marines, with 2 flamers, led my a sgt with a power sword and combat shield. Both of these shots can absorb 90 non-plasma, non-ap 2 or 3 shots.
This makes them actually very comparable to Assault marines. In shooting, 1 SG = 2 marines, so the 5 marines vs 10 doesn't matter too much. In assault, the SG all have power weapons, and are immune to most power weapons, so they are more combat-y there. In fact, they only place SG really hurts is against AP 2 and 1 weapons (plasma guns, vindicators, etc). 5 plasma wounds will hurt an assault squad, they will push the SG of the table.
On the other hand, the SG is another unit (like DC) where non-sergeants can take power fists (which means they cannot be blocked in challenges), and they don't lose any attacks by doing it, which could make them decent terminator hunters (maybe something like 3 with swords and 2 with Fists)?
Their roles are very similar to the Assault Marines roles (at least the ones that matter).
1. They can't take a rhino or razorback, and their weapons are still only range 12, so they are completely unsuitable for any back-field objective holding.
2. Running across the board. They are the same as Assault marines here, just as durable, and just as vulnerable to massed fire.
3. Jump in / Disruption. They are even more expensive than jump troops, so I would not be taking any chances trying to get into infernus pistol range (unless the unit was going to drop in with Dante). They don't have real flamers, and I probably wouldn't get hand flamers because they are pretty weak). Overall, they don't rock in this role, because the ranged weapons available to them aren't disruptful enough (unless you took 5 plasma pistols)
4. In an Assault Vehicle. Same as assault marines. Honestly, I like this better for SG than for Assault marines, because SG are SO MUCH better at hand to hand than shooting, that they really cannot fulfill their potential without getting into hand to hand (unless they are equipped as with plasma pistols or infernous pistols. They would have to take the stormraven, since land raiders can't carry jump troops, which is still putting a lot of expensive eggs in 1 basket.
Honestly, I still don't think I like SG in the role of scorer, unless it is to grab an objective in the last turn. There aren't enough of them - 5 SG might be equal to 10 Assault Marines in their ability to survive and kill, but 10 marines can combat squad and hit two targets, or split so that 1 unit covers the other (who has a relic), etc, at least I don't think I would make an army where they were my only scorers; more like fast terminators who happen to have the ability to score.
As for gear options - I think I have already covered it - Infernous pistol for "walkers" and plasma pistols for droppers, if I upgrade the weapons at all - if I am dropping a unit with Dante, I'd give them a few more infernous pistols, otherwise I would probably skip it (unless I was going for the plasma drop squad)
Masks - OK. They are like pinning, nice if it happened, but unless you have a way to lower leadership, this isn't likely to happen enough to pay for itself.
Getting tired, but banner - don't like it. We're already fearless, and the stuff that isn't has ATSKNF. Occasionally it could come in handy, but the points are better spend elsewhere
Assault Marines
So to continue with my review of BA scoring units, I will be discussing the Assault Marines. In 5th, these, in a free rhino or cheap razorback, were our go to scoring units. With 6th edition, everyone has abandoned the vehicles, based on perception that vehicles are no longer safe, and that you have to get out to score anyway. I haven't done math-hammer, or test games, although I might by the end of this article, so I don't know if this is a knee-jerk reaction, or if this is how the game will be for the rest of 6th.
As to the Marines themselves. They have the base marine stat-line, with lots of options, although some of them are moderately expensive for what they do. As always, how they are equipped, and how we use them, depends on what role we assign them. I know a lot of this is pretty basic to a marine player, but I wanted to be as complete as possible, partially to benefit new players (my brother wants to start playing as soon as he can afford an army), and partially to clarify things I already knew:
1. Cheap scoring: For 100 points, you can put 5 of them in a rhino. This unit can sit on or near the objective until turn 5, and then act a screen (maybe even line of sight blocker). With new line of sight rules, you should be able to hide at least 2-3 marines from all angles, so that the enemy will be forced to explode your rhino in order to get a shot. This unit should be able to survive 1 round of shooting, especially if your other units have been taking the enemy shooters apart for 5 turns.
2. Less Cheap, more useful scoring : For 150 points, you can put 5 marines in a razorback with a las cannon. This might make the marines more of a target, but will let them contribute to the fight. It is true that concentrated fire can easily kill a razorback in a turn, so take a couple, and stay way back. By turn 2, he should have enough other things to worry about (although you may have to deal with flyers way back there, as well as outflanking attacks). You could of course keep the heavy bolter for cheaper, but there are a lot more things that can kill razorbacks inside of 36" (like heavy bolters). On turn 5, jump out and use razor to screen, as above.
3. Back field objective holders, no vehicle: Don't do this. These guys contribute nothing to the war at all. Their pistols won't reach mid-field (or barely will), and all of the their special weapons are equally limited in terms of range. You would be better off taking 5 scouts with cloaks and sniper rifles, and then automatically go to ground whenever someone shoots at them.
4. Assault Marines: This is the standard, jump across the board and assault targets as appropriate. You will usually get the charge, and your high level of mobility will let you pick targets at will (so that you might actually get to use your infernus pistol at 3") Equip for melee, or anti-vehicle, or both. The advantage is you will usually get the charge. The disadvantage is that if the enemy is trying to avoid melee (by lining up more than 24" away) you could get shot for at least 2 rounds before you get to combat. Depending on what is shooting you, this could severely limit you viability as a melee threat.
5. Harassment Unit: This is my favorite way to use Assault marines. Give them jump packs, and use Descent of Angels to drop them into enemy lines on turn 2. With 2 squads of these, combat squaded into 4 5-man squads, you can cause a lot of trouble for you opponent. 5 Marines will not smash very many units in hand to hand, but they will generally survive a few turns (obviously not against terminators, but against "normal" stuff. In groups of 5, with DoA, you only need to drop about 7 inches away (8 if you want to be 100% save). The reason you want to get so close is because you want to use melta guns and flamers, to maximize the amount of damage you do the turn you come in.
The advantage to the harassment style, is that you get to do damage that the enemy cannot stop. He can't shoot you until you come on the board, so you can deliver that 1 critical attack where ever it needs to be. If you have reserve vehicles, this unit is great for clearing the way. Drop down behind an Agis defense line and flamer it clear, drop next to some hydro cannons, and take them out. Once you have completed the mission, if you are pretty shot up, use your mobility to escape the death star that may come after you, and position yourself to claim an objective. If you survive enemy shooting mostly intact (and if you have 4 combat squad, some of them should), assault something. You might not be able to kill that Dev squad or those 14 lootas in 1 turn, but you should survive long enough to keep them from shooting for at least 1 turn, and forcing enemy units into roles they weren't chosen for is huge hindrance for you opponent.
6. Vehicle assault: I won't address Rhino or Razor back assault, because that is just not good for them. It is just like dropping in (in terms of getting shot up after getting out of the vehicle), without the flexibility of being able to strike weak spots across the board.
Without going into strengths and weaknesses of the vehicles themselves, I will only discuss them here in their ability to fill this role.
Stormraven - earliest you will be able to charge in turn 3. Resistant to shooting, but a lucky hit will ruin your unit. If I was going to use one, I would think about coming in hover mode and moving flat out. This reduces you chance of removing big threats with your flyer, but it means that you can still move about 40" without losing everything to 1 lucky shot. Even then, I would probably not use a stormraven to deliver a unit of assault marines unless I was also delivering a dread to support them, otherwise I would use a landraider.
Landraider - Armor 14 is hard to kill at a range, and once you are in melta range, you have already delivered your cargo. Also, as a dedicated transport to Assault Marines, it is not many more points than a stormraven. With a flat out move on turn 1, then moving 6" and unloading 6" on turn 2, you can give your marines a very real chance of charging into enemy deployment zone on turn 2.
I was considering the TL las cannon razorback idea, but seeing it is only 20 points cheaper than 10 tactical marines (with a missile launcher), makes me think I would probably not use it.
I would probably only use tactical marines as role 4 and 5, maybe 6 (although I'd probably rather use elite units) and maybe 2 (although with allies, I could get scoring units with the same, or more, fire power for cheaper).
Equipment options:
Flamer and Meltagun - both Great choices, depending on what you expect to face. In an all comers list, take 1 of each per unit (or 1 unit with 2 flamers, and 1 unit with 2 meltaguns) that can be combat squaded as needed. You will lose an attack, but I think it's worth it.
Hand Flamer - OK. I think the +1 strength is worth the attack. Since your flamers have to be in the front to shoot (since your template can't hit anything else), they are usually the first shooting casualty anyway, so make their shooting count, and don't worry about how many melee attacks they will have (because the answer is probably 0).
Plasma gun, plasma pistol - Good. On the Sgt, I would say the plasma pistol is good choice, as he can use it to snipe targets on the charge (and you want the sgt to have as many attacks as possible - not that he can take plasmagun anyway). For Rank and File, I think the plasmagun is better. Yes you lose an attack, but if you are going to buy the most expensive upgrade available, get as much use from it as you can. As Teq becomes more "it", I have thought about adding a plasma squad (2 plasma guns and gunslinging sgt with plasma pistols. Dropping 6-8" away and shooting 6 plasma shots into MeQ or TeQ could be game changing.
Infernus Pistol - Good, only if you are not dropping in. With a 6" range (3" melta), it would require you to take a major risk to ensure the use of your pistol the turn you drop in, and since you will probably be assaulted the next turn, those points will be wasted if you don't.
For the SGT, I've already discussed the ranged weapons - IF I upgraded the ranged weapon, I would take a plasma pistol in dropping in, or Infernus pistol if moving across the board.
Naked - Good - For melee, it is perfectly viable to leave him with no upgrades, and use him to absorb power weapon hits in challenges (18 points for a meatshield that will protect the rest of the squad from enemy super killer)
Power sword - Good. Still extra attack - may not win challenge, but at least has a chance. If he does win, that power sword will help too.
Claws - OK - I don't think they offer enough to a SGT to be worth losing an attack. (Against a character with lots of base attacks and high WS, the re-roll to wounds might be worth it, but the Assault Sgt is neither of those things).
Power fist and Thunder - Bad-Good hammer will never get a chance to swing. However, if you were going to move across the board, and have control over what combats you are in (a choice you don't really get when you DOA in), the hammer and fist could serve a purpose (tank hunting).
Stormshield -OK- With 1 wound and average stats, I don't think I would spend 20 points for a SGT to get a stormshield. There could be times when the stormshield saves the day, but 20 points will make the SGT lose an attack, and will not make him anymore likely to survive a round with a real combat character. (and I think paying more for an upgrade that the cost of the model itself is counter-intuitive. - In fact, maybe there is a rule-of-thumb in there somewhere, like a character should not be upgraded more than 10% of his base cost, or something like that)
Combat shield. Good - for 5 points, it won't save the day as often as a stromshield, but when it does save they day, you won't yourself asking if it was worth the points. Equally,
Melta Bombs - Great. Take out buildings, monsters, dreads, and vehicles for 5 points. I always take these for all of my SGTs. If I need the points, I may drop them from time to time (they aren't THAT much better than krak grenades in most of these cases), but they offer so much flexibility, for so cheap, that they are my first upgrade every time.
As to the Marines themselves. They have the base marine stat-line, with lots of options, although some of them are moderately expensive for what they do. As always, how they are equipped, and how we use them, depends on what role we assign them. I know a lot of this is pretty basic to a marine player, but I wanted to be as complete as possible, partially to benefit new players (my brother wants to start playing as soon as he can afford an army), and partially to clarify things I already knew:
1. Cheap scoring: For 100 points, you can put 5 of them in a rhino. This unit can sit on or near the objective until turn 5, and then act a screen (maybe even line of sight blocker). With new line of sight rules, you should be able to hide at least 2-3 marines from all angles, so that the enemy will be forced to explode your rhino in order to get a shot. This unit should be able to survive 1 round of shooting, especially if your other units have been taking the enemy shooters apart for 5 turns.
2. Less Cheap, more useful scoring : For 150 points, you can put 5 marines in a razorback with a las cannon. This might make the marines more of a target, but will let them contribute to the fight. It is true that concentrated fire can easily kill a razorback in a turn, so take a couple, and stay way back. By turn 2, he should have enough other things to worry about (although you may have to deal with flyers way back there, as well as outflanking attacks). You could of course keep the heavy bolter for cheaper, but there are a lot more things that can kill razorbacks inside of 36" (like heavy bolters). On turn 5, jump out and use razor to screen, as above.
3. Back field objective holders, no vehicle: Don't do this. These guys contribute nothing to the war at all. Their pistols won't reach mid-field (or barely will), and all of the their special weapons are equally limited in terms of range. You would be better off taking 5 scouts with cloaks and sniper rifles, and then automatically go to ground whenever someone shoots at them.
4. Assault Marines: This is the standard, jump across the board and assault targets as appropriate. You will usually get the charge, and your high level of mobility will let you pick targets at will (so that you might actually get to use your infernus pistol at 3") Equip for melee, or anti-vehicle, or both. The advantage is you will usually get the charge. The disadvantage is that if the enemy is trying to avoid melee (by lining up more than 24" away) you could get shot for at least 2 rounds before you get to combat. Depending on what is shooting you, this could severely limit you viability as a melee threat.
5. Harassment Unit: This is my favorite way to use Assault marines. Give them jump packs, and use Descent of Angels to drop them into enemy lines on turn 2. With 2 squads of these, combat squaded into 4 5-man squads, you can cause a lot of trouble for you opponent. 5 Marines will not smash very many units in hand to hand, but they will generally survive a few turns (obviously not against terminators, but against "normal" stuff. In groups of 5, with DoA, you only need to drop about 7 inches away (8 if you want to be 100% save). The reason you want to get so close is because you want to use melta guns and flamers, to maximize the amount of damage you do the turn you come in.
The advantage to the harassment style, is that you get to do damage that the enemy cannot stop. He can't shoot you until you come on the board, so you can deliver that 1 critical attack where ever it needs to be. If you have reserve vehicles, this unit is great for clearing the way. Drop down behind an Agis defense line and flamer it clear, drop next to some hydro cannons, and take them out. Once you have completed the mission, if you are pretty shot up, use your mobility to escape the death star that may come after you, and position yourself to claim an objective. If you survive enemy shooting mostly intact (and if you have 4 combat squad, some of them should), assault something. You might not be able to kill that Dev squad or those 14 lootas in 1 turn, but you should survive long enough to keep them from shooting for at least 1 turn, and forcing enemy units into roles they weren't chosen for is huge hindrance for you opponent.
6. Vehicle assault: I won't address Rhino or Razor back assault, because that is just not good for them. It is just like dropping in (in terms of getting shot up after getting out of the vehicle), without the flexibility of being able to strike weak spots across the board.
Without going into strengths and weaknesses of the vehicles themselves, I will only discuss them here in their ability to fill this role.
Stormraven - earliest you will be able to charge in turn 3. Resistant to shooting, but a lucky hit will ruin your unit. If I was going to use one, I would think about coming in hover mode and moving flat out. This reduces you chance of removing big threats with your flyer, but it means that you can still move about 40" without losing everything to 1 lucky shot. Even then, I would probably not use a stormraven to deliver a unit of assault marines unless I was also delivering a dread to support them, otherwise I would use a landraider.
Landraider - Armor 14 is hard to kill at a range, and once you are in melta range, you have already delivered your cargo. Also, as a dedicated transport to Assault Marines, it is not many more points than a stormraven. With a flat out move on turn 1, then moving 6" and unloading 6" on turn 2, you can give your marines a very real chance of charging into enemy deployment zone on turn 2.
I was considering the TL las cannon razorback idea, but seeing it is only 20 points cheaper than 10 tactical marines (with a missile launcher), makes me think I would probably not use it.
I would probably only use tactical marines as role 4 and 5, maybe 6 (although I'd probably rather use elite units) and maybe 2 (although with allies, I could get scoring units with the same, or more, fire power for cheaper).
Equipment options:
Flamer and Meltagun - both Great choices, depending on what you expect to face. In an all comers list, take 1 of each per unit (or 1 unit with 2 flamers, and 1 unit with 2 meltaguns) that can be combat squaded as needed. You will lose an attack, but I think it's worth it.
Hand Flamer - OK. I think the +1 strength is worth the attack. Since your flamers have to be in the front to shoot (since your template can't hit anything else), they are usually the first shooting casualty anyway, so make their shooting count, and don't worry about how many melee attacks they will have (because the answer is probably 0).
Plasma gun, plasma pistol - Good. On the Sgt, I would say the plasma pistol is good choice, as he can use it to snipe targets on the charge (and you want the sgt to have as many attacks as possible - not that he can take plasmagun anyway). For Rank and File, I think the plasmagun is better. Yes you lose an attack, but if you are going to buy the most expensive upgrade available, get as much use from it as you can. As Teq becomes more "it", I have thought about adding a plasma squad (2 plasma guns and gunslinging sgt with plasma pistols. Dropping 6-8" away and shooting 6 plasma shots into MeQ or TeQ could be game changing.
Infernus Pistol - Good, only if you are not dropping in. With a 6" range (3" melta), it would require you to take a major risk to ensure the use of your pistol the turn you drop in, and since you will probably be assaulted the next turn, those points will be wasted if you don't.
For the SGT, I've already discussed the ranged weapons - IF I upgraded the ranged weapon, I would take a plasma pistol in dropping in, or Infernus pistol if moving across the board.
Naked - Good - For melee, it is perfectly viable to leave him with no upgrades, and use him to absorb power weapon hits in challenges (18 points for a meatshield that will protect the rest of the squad from enemy super killer)
Power sword - Good. Still extra attack - may not win challenge, but at least has a chance. If he does win, that power sword will help too.
Claws - OK - I don't think they offer enough to a SGT to be worth losing an attack. (Against a character with lots of base attacks and high WS, the re-roll to wounds might be worth it, but the Assault Sgt is neither of those things).
Power fist and Thunder - Bad-Good hammer will never get a chance to swing. However, if you were going to move across the board, and have control over what combats you are in (a choice you don't really get when you DOA in), the hammer and fist could serve a purpose (tank hunting).
Stormshield -OK- With 1 wound and average stats, I don't think I would spend 20 points for a SGT to get a stormshield. There could be times when the stormshield saves the day, but 20 points will make the SGT lose an attack, and will not make him anymore likely to survive a round with a real combat character. (and I think paying more for an upgrade that the cost of the model itself is counter-intuitive. - In fact, maybe there is a rule-of-thumb in there somewhere, like a character should not be upgraded more than 10% of his base cost, or something like that)
Combat shield. Good - for 5 points, it won't save the day as often as a stromshield, but when it does save they day, you won't yourself asking if it was worth the points. Equally,
Melta Bombs - Great. Take out buildings, monsters, dreads, and vehicles for 5 points. I always take these for all of my SGTs. If I need the points, I may drop them from time to time (they aren't THAT much better than krak grenades in most of these cases), but they offer so much flexibility, for so cheap, that they are my first upgrade every time.
Saturday, August 4, 2012
2000 point Aggressive BA (may need some refinement)
So, I was reading on the forums about someone defending transports (even though are are the most expensive), he listed some ideas. The idea that I liked, because it went with my Blood Angel play style, was as follows... 3 units of tactical (or in this case 2 tactical squads, and 1 death company squads), full tilt turn 1, so that about 11" from enemy deployment zone. On my 2nd turn, unload all the troops and rapid fire into enemy lines with all 3 units, at the same time my assault marines are dropping down with flamers and setting up charge. I will lead the transports with a unit of bikes. They either flat out for a better save, or go 12 and shoot. On turn 2, they will branch out and either assault a soft target or help turret a stronger target. So the idea is to have almost my whole army in the enemy deployment zone on turn 2. The part that doesn't fit are the 2 whirlwinds. I like them because they are fast (so they fit the theme), they can flush out scouts and such (and maybe heavy weapon teams), to soften up the enemy. The problem is, if all goes to plan, they will be alone on my side of the board on turn 3 (and they will be shooting into the enemy deployment area with scatter - which could hit my troops). While I like them, I am just not sure the whirlwind fits THIS army.
Maybe if I lose the epistolary upgrade and the 2 whirlwinds, I could add 5 assault terminators, but would that contribute more than 2 whirlwinds?
The whole list is:
Librarian on a bike with force staff
Sanguinary Priest on Bike with powersword
2 Tactical Squads (MM and Flamer) in Rhino
1 Death Company (7 guys with bolters and 3 axes amd pistols) in Rhino
2 Assault Squads (2 Flamers and SGT Power Sword and Mega Bomb and combat shields)
8 Bikes with melta guns and Attack Bike with MM with power sword
2 Whirlwinds
Maybe if I lose the epistolary upgrade and the 2 whirlwinds, I could add 5 assault terminators, but would that contribute more than 2 whirlwinds?
The whole list is:
Librarian on a bike with force staff
Sanguinary Priest on Bike with powersword
2 Tactical Squads (MM and Flamer) in Rhino
1 Death Company (7 guys with bolters and 3 axes amd pistols) in Rhino
2 Assault Squads (2 Flamers and SGT Power Sword and Mega Bomb and combat shields)
8 Bikes with melta guns and Attack Bike with MM with power sword
2 Whirlwinds
Friday, August 3, 2012
Efficiency of Tactical Marines
Last month I reviewed Scouts, so to continue the troop series, I will now talk about tactical marines. Before 6th edition, I never took tactical marines. 5 Assault marines in a cheap razorback (or free rhino) gave me more points for other things. Now that you have to get out the vehicle, I have started taking tactical marines again. I actually haven't done any math-hammer yet (but I will), it is entirely possible that 5 assault marines hiding in razorback for 4 turns and then getting out is better, and more efficient after all (yes they will get shot, but how much enemy firepower will the absorb, and the vehicles are practically free), but for now....
The Blood Angel Tactical marines are the same as pretty much every other tactical marine squad, except there is a 1 in 6 chance that they are fearless. While fearless rocks this edition, it doesn't matter a lot for objective camping tactical marines; as long as you make sure they are 12.1" from the edge of the board, they will rally and be able to resume their task.
This brings me to tactics of tactical marines. A unit cannot really be evaluated without considering what you are going to ask of it.
1. Camping Back Objectives - The traditional use of tactical marines. Drop them in the backfield, and shoot anything that comes close. This is a job that over-laps with one of the uses of Scouts. A lot of people use scouts in this role, because they are cheaper, and people are trying to save points - but lets look at the costs: A scout with a cammo cloak costs the same as a tactical marine. While the first 5 scouts are 15 points cheaper than the first 5 tacticals, by the time you add a missle launcher for 10 points, you are saving 5 points by taking scouts.
So for 5 points more, you get a unit with BS 4, with an AS 3 most of the time, instead a unit with BS 3, with a save of 4+ (armor and cover), but keep in mind that the tacticals are still going to have cover save of 5+. The Scouts have longer range (with sniper rifles), but the tacticals are more deadly at close range and melee, and if you have troops sitting on an objective, they are eventually going to be at close range to the enemy.
2. Mid-Field Control - Tactical Marines are good for mid-field control for the same reason that the same reason they are good at camping back field objectives - they are durable, and get more dangerous the closer the enemy gets, and can hold their own in melee. From the middle of the board, their 24" range will offer them a lot of targets, and the enemy generally will not be able to ignore them to go for your back-field.
3. Enemy deployment zone invasion - This is a new use for BA tactical marines. Generally, if you want marines in the enemy deployment zone, you take jump troops. This unit is there to support those troops. They load 10 marines into a transport, and rush the enemy. On turn 1, our rhino's can move 24" (although I would probably only go 12", depending on how far back the enemy deploys). So turn 1, move to middle of the board (11-12" from enemy deployment). Turn 2, move 6", then unload troops 6" closer. By now you should be in rapid fire range on enemy. By itself, 1 unit is not a huge threat, but imagine 3 units of tactical marines rapid-firing into the enemy's deployment zone, while your assault marines are landing nearby to flame things and set up charges. Since combat squads can ride in the same vehicle, you can even have 1 CS with MM going after vehicles, while the flamer or plasma gun goes after the troops.
The only "set back" to this plan, is that you need to take multiple units of tactical squads, each with a rhino, and rhinos for our tactical squads are more expensive than anyone else's (because they are fast, even though fast doesn't help us here, because we don't want the enemy to be able to charge our rhinos). You are almost losing a whole tactical squad for 3 transports.
I mentioned equipping the tacticals. I personally prefer MM and Flamer, as both choices are free. If our missile launchers get flakk missiles, then I will probably swap out the MM for a ML. A lot of people like plasma guns, and if you are going to leave the marines in the back or middle field, I can see where it would be useful, especially if everyone starts foot-slogging terminators across the board. That being said, I like the free versatility provided by the flamer. Too often, the enemy gets troops to my objectives, so having the ability to flame them before charging, or getting the free hits when they do charge is good for me (additionally, I have never taken a plasma weapon that did not kill its user by the end of a game). So my preferences aside, I will talk about each weapon option.
Flamer - Great. Its Free. Free hits against chargers. Ignores cover (if you are defending or attacking an objective, you are probably doing it through cover). Less useful for back field defenders, as it won't get used.
Meltagun - Good. It is a decent weapon no matter where you put it. Up front, good for killing Meqs, parked vehicles, characters. In the middle, it makes it even more difficult for you opponent to just go around you. In the back it is the least useful, but you will still occasionally get something in the backfield that you will want melta for. Downside - although cheap, it is not free. The melta guy is often the first to die, because making sure he is close enough to get the 12" shot often makes him the first casualty to enemy shooting (although this is more likely user error). The biggest reason I don't take the melta gun on tacticals is because by the time tactical marines are withing 12", they can charge with melta and krak grenades and usually get the job done.
Plasmagun - Good. Everyone is making a big deal out of plasma, because of how dangerous 2+ saves are because of the change to power weapons, but I don't see how that effects shooting. Very few ranged infantry weapons had AP2, and that hasn't changed. If you weren't using plasma before, there is not really a reason to use it now - weight of fire still kills 2+ at a range, just like always. Again, I am not a big fan of plasma because for me it always explodes, and I always fail my same. But, as more people make MEQ and TEQ foot-lists, plasma might start being worth the points / risk.
Heavy Bolter - OK. I consider the heavy bolter as a vehicle mounted weapon. It is not much better than a boltgun, especially inside 12". Str 5 can glance a lot of vehicles of flyers, but just barely, and it won't happen enough to be worth it (especially now that 1 glance won't neutralize a vehicle like it did before). There is nothing wrong with the heavy bolter, it just isn't as good as the other free options available to tactical squads.
MM - Great. Its Free, it has the same range as a bolt gun, and is as good or better at popping MEQs and TEQs on foot. It is also good for popping vehicles (of course) at a range, and has the best chance of a snapshot taking down a flyer in 1 hit..
Missile Launcher - Great. It's Free. It has a long range, so you have some threat over a large area. It is decent for anti-horde and anti-MEQ, as well as popping most vehicle. It may eventually get anti-aircraft capability.
Plasma Cannon - OK. Great against MEQs and TEQs, especially of they are Deep Striking nearby. however, it is a small template, so if they spread out it has limited effectiveness. The scatter could also threaten your own nearby support units. You risk "gets hot!", and it is the only weapon tactical marines can take that DOES NOT get to snapshot on the move.
Las Cannon - Good. It is not free, but it has the longest range, and the highest strength. If you were going to camp an objective in the backfield, this would be a fine choice. The only reason it's not Great, is because it is only slightly better than the missile launcher, which is free, but if you know that you are going to need that extra punch - because you are like to face TEQ, Landraiders, etc, then there is nothing wrong with taking a Las Cannon.
Upgrades for the SGT - These are a lot more situational, and preference based, but I will still offer thoughts on each of them:
Chain Sword - Eh. A long range support unit would be better off with a boltgun than a pistol and sword, as it will hurt the unit's primary mission of providing fire-support (I know you could keep the boltgun and the sword - but what's the point?) If you were going to be close up to enemy, and worried about your melee performance, then it would be ok, but again, just ok.
Stormbolter - Good. If you have 3 extra points, and don't plan on being in melee, there is no reason not to take this - although I would take it on other characters first.
Combi-Weapons - Situational, I never take them. To me, they are like taking missile on rhinos; occasionally, 1 special weapon shot will come in handy, but I would rather spend the points on something that contributed more consistently.
Plasma Pistol - Ok. With the character ability to choose their target on a 6, it could come in handy, but if you are that close, you are about to be in melee (probably in a challenge), and anything that makes a SGT more expensive, and doesn't help him win the challenge (thereby protecting those extra points), is Meh in my book.
Power Weapon - Ok-Good. If you plan on being in the backfield, then you are better off with a boltgun. Although the power weapon could take the place of a pistol, and be more useful than a chainsword in that situation, its a decent chuck of "upgrade" points that you hope don't make their points back (because if the sword turns out to be worth it, it means a unit you didn't want in combat was in combat). In a unit that is going to be mid-field forward, the power weapon and a pistol is a strong choice. You have a decent chance of winning challenges against other SGTS and non-melee oriented characters. Since the SGT can be singled out in combat, I suggest the power sword over the other options. Anything worth fighting in a challenge is at least armour 3, but with 1 wound and no invuln save, if you are going last in the challenge, you are probably not going at all (so no axe)
Power fist - Ok. Besides being more expensive then the power axe, it suffers the same problem - you are probably never going to get to use it. For those rare times when you "need" the extra strength, against vehicles, dread, monsters, etc, you can probably use a grenade, at initiative, instead.
Melta Bomb - Great. In most cases it can do what you'd want a power fist to do, for a lot less points, and it won't take away attacks when you don't need it.
Teleport Homer - Situational (does it work in a vehicle?) If you were pushing forward, into enemy deployment zone, and wanted to drop terminators instead of assault marines, I would take this (as the bigger risk of scatter, combined with density of units in area make deep striking there much more risky). If it does not work in a vehicle, I guess on turn 1 I would drive 6", then unload 6". I guess you could then run another (average) 3". Then, on turn 2, the terminators could land 6" away without scatter - basically giving you a 21" scatter free zone - unless your enemy realizes what you are doing, and you don't have enough other things on the board to draw his fire. Actually I think this might be a pretty strong tactic for some other armies, but to make it worthwhile you would probably need multiple units of terminators, and I would rather take assault marines, since they are scoring for us.
(although I might math-hammer it to see if maybe adding 1 squad of assault terminators to support my assault marines might not be worth it).
The Blood Angel Tactical marines are the same as pretty much every other tactical marine squad, except there is a 1 in 6 chance that they are fearless. While fearless rocks this edition, it doesn't matter a lot for objective camping tactical marines; as long as you make sure they are 12.1" from the edge of the board, they will rally and be able to resume their task.
This brings me to tactics of tactical marines. A unit cannot really be evaluated without considering what you are going to ask of it.
1. Camping Back Objectives - The traditional use of tactical marines. Drop them in the backfield, and shoot anything that comes close. This is a job that over-laps with one of the uses of Scouts. A lot of people use scouts in this role, because they are cheaper, and people are trying to save points - but lets look at the costs: A scout with a cammo cloak costs the same as a tactical marine. While the first 5 scouts are 15 points cheaper than the first 5 tacticals, by the time you add a missle launcher for 10 points, you are saving 5 points by taking scouts.
So for 5 points more, you get a unit with BS 4, with an AS 3 most of the time, instead a unit with BS 3, with a save of 4+ (armor and cover), but keep in mind that the tacticals are still going to have cover save of 5+. The Scouts have longer range (with sniper rifles), but the tacticals are more deadly at close range and melee, and if you have troops sitting on an objective, they are eventually going to be at close range to the enemy.
2. Mid-Field Control - Tactical Marines are good for mid-field control for the same reason that the same reason they are good at camping back field objectives - they are durable, and get more dangerous the closer the enemy gets, and can hold their own in melee. From the middle of the board, their 24" range will offer them a lot of targets, and the enemy generally will not be able to ignore them to go for your back-field.
3. Enemy deployment zone invasion - This is a new use for BA tactical marines. Generally, if you want marines in the enemy deployment zone, you take jump troops. This unit is there to support those troops. They load 10 marines into a transport, and rush the enemy. On turn 1, our rhino's can move 24" (although I would probably only go 12", depending on how far back the enemy deploys). So turn 1, move to middle of the board (11-12" from enemy deployment). Turn 2, move 6", then unload troops 6" closer. By now you should be in rapid fire range on enemy. By itself, 1 unit is not a huge threat, but imagine 3 units of tactical marines rapid-firing into the enemy's deployment zone, while your assault marines are landing nearby to flame things and set up charges. Since combat squads can ride in the same vehicle, you can even have 1 CS with MM going after vehicles, while the flamer or plasma gun goes after the troops.
The only "set back" to this plan, is that you need to take multiple units of tactical squads, each with a rhino, and rhinos for our tactical squads are more expensive than anyone else's (because they are fast, even though fast doesn't help us here, because we don't want the enemy to be able to charge our rhinos). You are almost losing a whole tactical squad for 3 transports.
I mentioned equipping the tacticals. I personally prefer MM and Flamer, as both choices are free. If our missile launchers get flakk missiles, then I will probably swap out the MM for a ML. A lot of people like plasma guns, and if you are going to leave the marines in the back or middle field, I can see where it would be useful, especially if everyone starts foot-slogging terminators across the board. That being said, I like the free versatility provided by the flamer. Too often, the enemy gets troops to my objectives, so having the ability to flame them before charging, or getting the free hits when they do charge is good for me (additionally, I have never taken a plasma weapon that did not kill its user by the end of a game). So my preferences aside, I will talk about each weapon option.
Flamer - Great. Its Free. Free hits against chargers. Ignores cover (if you are defending or attacking an objective, you are probably doing it through cover). Less useful for back field defenders, as it won't get used.
Meltagun - Good. It is a decent weapon no matter where you put it. Up front, good for killing Meqs, parked vehicles, characters. In the middle, it makes it even more difficult for you opponent to just go around you. In the back it is the least useful, but you will still occasionally get something in the backfield that you will want melta for. Downside - although cheap, it is not free. The melta guy is often the first to die, because making sure he is close enough to get the 12" shot often makes him the first casualty to enemy shooting (although this is more likely user error). The biggest reason I don't take the melta gun on tacticals is because by the time tactical marines are withing 12", they can charge with melta and krak grenades and usually get the job done.
Plasmagun - Good. Everyone is making a big deal out of plasma, because of how dangerous 2+ saves are because of the change to power weapons, but I don't see how that effects shooting. Very few ranged infantry weapons had AP2, and that hasn't changed. If you weren't using plasma before, there is not really a reason to use it now - weight of fire still kills 2+ at a range, just like always. Again, I am not a big fan of plasma because for me it always explodes, and I always fail my same. But, as more people make MEQ and TEQ foot-lists, plasma might start being worth the points / risk.
Heavy Bolter - OK. I consider the heavy bolter as a vehicle mounted weapon. It is not much better than a boltgun, especially inside 12". Str 5 can glance a lot of vehicles of flyers, but just barely, and it won't happen enough to be worth it (especially now that 1 glance won't neutralize a vehicle like it did before). There is nothing wrong with the heavy bolter, it just isn't as good as the other free options available to tactical squads.
MM - Great. Its Free, it has the same range as a bolt gun, and is as good or better at popping MEQs and TEQs on foot. It is also good for popping vehicles (of course) at a range, and has the best chance of a snapshot taking down a flyer in 1 hit..
Missile Launcher - Great. It's Free. It has a long range, so you have some threat over a large area. It is decent for anti-horde and anti-MEQ, as well as popping most vehicle. It may eventually get anti-aircraft capability.
Plasma Cannon - OK. Great against MEQs and TEQs, especially of they are Deep Striking nearby. however, it is a small template, so if they spread out it has limited effectiveness. The scatter could also threaten your own nearby support units. You risk "gets hot!", and it is the only weapon tactical marines can take that DOES NOT get to snapshot on the move.
Las Cannon - Good. It is not free, but it has the longest range, and the highest strength. If you were going to camp an objective in the backfield, this would be a fine choice. The only reason it's not Great, is because it is only slightly better than the missile launcher, which is free, but if you know that you are going to need that extra punch - because you are like to face TEQ, Landraiders, etc, then there is nothing wrong with taking a Las Cannon.
Upgrades for the SGT - These are a lot more situational, and preference based, but I will still offer thoughts on each of them:
Chain Sword - Eh. A long range support unit would be better off with a boltgun than a pistol and sword, as it will hurt the unit's primary mission of providing fire-support (I know you could keep the boltgun and the sword - but what's the point?) If you were going to be close up to enemy, and worried about your melee performance, then it would be ok, but again, just ok.
Stormbolter - Good. If you have 3 extra points, and don't plan on being in melee, there is no reason not to take this - although I would take it on other characters first.
Combi-Weapons - Situational, I never take them. To me, they are like taking missile on rhinos; occasionally, 1 special weapon shot will come in handy, but I would rather spend the points on something that contributed more consistently.
Plasma Pistol - Ok. With the character ability to choose their target on a 6, it could come in handy, but if you are that close, you are about to be in melee (probably in a challenge), and anything that makes a SGT more expensive, and doesn't help him win the challenge (thereby protecting those extra points), is Meh in my book.
Power Weapon - Ok-Good. If you plan on being in the backfield, then you are better off with a boltgun. Although the power weapon could take the place of a pistol, and be more useful than a chainsword in that situation, its a decent chuck of "upgrade" points that you hope don't make their points back (because if the sword turns out to be worth it, it means a unit you didn't want in combat was in combat). In a unit that is going to be mid-field forward, the power weapon and a pistol is a strong choice. You have a decent chance of winning challenges against other SGTS and non-melee oriented characters. Since the SGT can be singled out in combat, I suggest the power sword over the other options. Anything worth fighting in a challenge is at least armour 3, but with 1 wound and no invuln save, if you are going last in the challenge, you are probably not going at all (so no axe)
Power fist - Ok. Besides being more expensive then the power axe, it suffers the same problem - you are probably never going to get to use it. For those rare times when you "need" the extra strength, against vehicles, dread, monsters, etc, you can probably use a grenade, at initiative, instead.
Melta Bomb - Great. In most cases it can do what you'd want a power fist to do, for a lot less points, and it won't take away attacks when you don't need it.
Teleport Homer - Situational (does it work in a vehicle?) If you were pushing forward, into enemy deployment zone, and wanted to drop terminators instead of assault marines, I would take this (as the bigger risk of scatter, combined with density of units in area make deep striking there much more risky). If it does not work in a vehicle, I guess on turn 1 I would drive 6", then unload 6". I guess you could then run another (average) 3". Then, on turn 2, the terminators could land 6" away without scatter - basically giving you a 21" scatter free zone - unless your enemy realizes what you are doing, and you don't have enough other things on the board to draw his fire. Actually I think this might be a pretty strong tactic for some other armies, but to make it worthwhile you would probably need multiple units of terminators, and I would rather take assault marines, since they are scoring for us.
(although I might math-hammer it to see if maybe adding 1 squad of assault terminators to support my assault marines might not be worth it).
Thursday, August 2, 2012
Next Project - biker librarian
I've already assembled it, now I just have to make it pretty (er).
I broke a tactical marine and mounted him on the coolest bike I had (I have a collection of Misc Bikes). Now I have 3 chaos bikes, which might have been cooler, but this looks more "regal"? The head and pistol came from death company (and the arm guard that covers the wrist joint where I had to cut of the hand so I could attach a grey knight terminator staff)
The psychic hood is a chaos knight (fantasy) shoulder pad
Threw in some grey-knight books, just in case it wasn't clear that this was not a librarian. Thinking of adding a few more - how many books is too many?
I broke a tactical marine and mounted him on the coolest bike I had (I have a collection of Misc Bikes). Now I have 3 chaos bikes, which might have been cooler, but this looks more "regal"? The head and pistol came from death company (and the arm guard that covers the wrist joint where I had to cut of the hand so I could attach a grey knight terminator staff)
The psychic hood is a chaos knight (fantasy) shoulder pad
Threw in some grey-knight books, just in case it wasn't clear that this was not a librarian. Thinking of adding a few more - how many books is too many?
Come a Long Way
So, speaking of never painting marines, and starting along time ago...
My next project is going to be my Biker Librarian. As I was looking for bits, I was overwhelmed with how much 40k stuff I have acquired - I've come a long way from trading my fantasy chaos army for enough necrons to get started in 40K.
My next project is going to be my Biker Librarian. As I was looking for bits, I was overwhelmed with how much 40k stuff I have acquired - I've come a long way from trading my fantasy chaos army for enough necrons to get started in 40K.
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| These are mostly Marine Types |
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| Eldar, and some un-opened boxes of Grey Knight |
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| Bins full of stuff - My necron Army (the one I traded for) is in that red tackle box (except for the monolith). There are also 3 in-the-box land raiders, one of which is Apocalypse only (have no idea when I got that). |
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| More stuff, mostly bits and part of a Dark Eldar Army, the rest of my Marines are in the 2 cases in the front. |
First Marines I have ever painted
I've been playing for 3-4 years now, maybe longer, and I have never painted a marine. I painted some necrons I got (the old metal ones) when I first started playing, and haven't painted since. Even though I have played marines, it has been a hodge podge of counts as marines I got from ebay. When Grey Knights came out, I bought all new guys, so they were WYSIWYG, but still not painted.
Well, I wanted some actual death company, so I made a deal with my wife that would buy them, and then I wouldn't buy any other 40k stuff until that whole unit was painted. Here it is:
I am far from an awesome painter, but they look cool enough for me (especially from the distance to the table top). The power axes are actually metallic blue, the flask made them look purple
Well, I wanted some actual death company, so I made a deal with my wife that would buy them, and then I wouldn't buy any other 40k stuff until that whole unit was painted. Here it is:
I am far from an awesome painter, but they look cool enough for me (especially from the distance to the table top). The power axes are actually metallic blue, the flask made them look purple
Reclusiarchs and Chaplians (revisited)
Both of these greatly increase the efficiency of the Death Company, but is it enough? My thinking was that if I have to take a HQ anyway, why not take a Reclusiarch? Then I read this thread, http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=257434&hl=chaplain, and it started me thinking. While the charge bonus is huge with the re-rolls, what if you don't get the charge? What are you going to do the next round of combat?
I am coming around to the idea of using the points from a chaplain (or even the point difference between a chaplain and resclusiarch) to buy power axes. Power Axes will contribute to the combat EVERY round, even if the DC doesn't get the charge. Maybe if the DC is in an assault vehicle, the chaplain will be worth it, because you are almost guaranteed to get to use his power at least once, but I don't think so.
Mathhammer can only get you so far, but I have already been disappointed by the Reclusiarch - dying every game (giving up warlord point), failing to contribute because unit didn't get charge, failing challenges (because of AP 4 power weapon). In my last game, I got the charge on some tactical marines, and I slaughtered them, but the sergeant survived the challenge with my Reclusiarch (AP 4), and help my DC up to be hit by 2 more units the next turn. Had the Reclusiarch not been there to be challenged, the DC would have rolled the unit and consolidated to a better position.
In my own list I am going to drop the reclusiarch, and buy 3 power axes instead. This is making my Death Company 85 points cheaper. Not only is it cheaper, but I think these 3 power axes (which cannot be singled out or channeled by a challenge), would have made a huge difference in many of my recent games. Instead of tying up command squads and elite squads for 3-4 turns, this configuration would have had a real chance of winning those combats. Also, since it it cheaper, and does not contain my Warlord, I can let this unit do what it was meant to do - fight until it's dead.
I would take the chaplain if he gave the DC counter-charge (maybe even without the re-rolls)
I am coming around to the idea of using the points from a chaplain (or even the point difference between a chaplain and resclusiarch) to buy power axes. Power Axes will contribute to the combat EVERY round, even if the DC doesn't get the charge. Maybe if the DC is in an assault vehicle, the chaplain will be worth it, because you are almost guaranteed to get to use his power at least once, but I don't think so.
Mathhammer can only get you so far, but I have already been disappointed by the Reclusiarch - dying every game (giving up warlord point), failing to contribute because unit didn't get charge, failing challenges (because of AP 4 power weapon). In my last game, I got the charge on some tactical marines, and I slaughtered them, but the sergeant survived the challenge with my Reclusiarch (AP 4), and help my DC up to be hit by 2 more units the next turn. Had the Reclusiarch not been there to be challenged, the DC would have rolled the unit and consolidated to a better position.
In my own list I am going to drop the reclusiarch, and buy 3 power axes instead. This is making my Death Company 85 points cheaper. Not only is it cheaper, but I think these 3 power axes (which cannot be singled out or channeled by a challenge), would have made a huge difference in many of my recent games. Instead of tying up command squads and elite squads for 3-4 turns, this configuration would have had a real chance of winning those combats. Also, since it it cheaper, and does not contain my Warlord, I can let this unit do what it was meant to do - fight until it's dead.
I would take the chaplain if he gave the DC counter-charge (maybe even without the re-rolls)
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