Tuning my GK all shunt list part 4 - Wrapping it up

So, I think I have reached the point where I can no longer be productive in thinking about or talking about my shunt list.  Only by playing it will I be able to add anything new to the discussion.  I have decided on one of the two following lists:

The first one is:
GKGM with psyotroke grenades and incinerator
2x 10 GKSS with 2 Psycannons, 2 hammers, and justifier with halberd
2x 10 GKIS with 2 Psycannons, 2 hammers, and justifier with halberd
3x Dread Knights with heavy incinerator and teleporter

I realize that this list is weak against air, and against 3 dragons I will be forced to throw myself into melee.  What I like about this list is that most of my stuff is fast.  It can either jump, DS, or teleport - so I can be where I need to be.  There is a bonus with the GKIS and the local tournament, because all of the games in the tournament have troops as additional kill points - so normally combat squading to take more objectives means making more potential points for my opponent.  With GKIS, I can combat squad both of them (assuming an average grand strategy roll), and have 6 scoring units, while only presenting my enemy with 2 potential bonus points (like I said, still not sure GKIS worth it normally, but with grand strategy, they might be).



The second list has
GKGM with psycotroke grenades and master crafted psycannon
3x 10 GKSS with 2 psycannons, 2 hammers, and justifier with halberd
1 Stromraven with hurricane bolters, psybolt ammo, Assault cannons and MM
3x Dread Knights with heavy incinerator and teleporter

This list takes a flier against air.  It also have 3 GKSS and no GKIS.  Like I mentioned in an earlier post, GKSS can get where they need with deep strike, and I don't need to be much closer than 24" most of the time, so GKIS, while nice, probably aren't critical - Obviously I'll make the NDK scoring if need be.

I think both of these lists are pretty solid.  My favor is leaning toward the top list, hitting hard and dominating the manuever phase, but I think the second one might be a little better against all-comers, because the flyer helps mitigate what might be a hard-counter to the first list.

Tuning my GK all shunt list part 3.2 Tau

I considered doing a guard detachment, but I don't like it for this list either.  It brings me two flyers,and two more troops, both of which are useful, but it doesn't feel like it really synergizes (the HQ and the Troops just sit in the vehicle and hope not to get shot down, if I am going to buy allies, I want to get my points worth) - it just feels thrown in.

The last ally I considered is Tau.  While I think that this is pretty solid, I don't actually own any Tau, so I don't know if I'm going to field this, or be able to test it, but of the allies I considered, I think I like this one - additionally, I can see the GK working with the Tau.  Of all the Xenos races, they seem the most honorable, and they, like Grey Knights (with demon hosts and Jakaeros) use other races when it benefits them.


Commander +2 Bodyguard - The commander has shield generator and Neuroweb system Jammer, and all 3 of them have 2 missile pods (or twin-linked) and velocity tracker.

a 3 man Xv8 Crisis Team, each with velocity tracker and 2 missile pods (or twin linked)

Kroot Squad with 11 Kroot.

Both teams of battle suits have anti-air capability, but are not wasted if the enemy doesn't bring air.  The have jump packs so they can keep up, and fit in with the theme.

The kroot can infiltrate up, and put pressure on the backfield, or act as screening force if need be.

While I like this, it only gives me 3 scoring units, and one of them are the sacrifical kroot - although I will have Grand Strategy to boost my scoring count if need be.

Tuning my GK all shunt list part 3.1 Necron Allies

So, the first allies I am considering for my GK allies are Necrons.  GK/Necron lists seem to do pretty well in tournaments.  On the other hand, even though the fluff might support it, I really have a hard time with accepting that Grey Knights would work with Necrons.

Assuming that my Grey Knights would work with Necrons, the next question to answer is, do Necrons add anything to this specific list?

While there are a lot of possible Necron ally lists, the biggest gap in my Shunt list is anti-air, and Necron is the only army that lets me take 3 discrete aircraft.  I can take 2 units of warriors, each with Night Scythe, and then a Doom Scythe.

This would give me 2 more scoring units, 3 flyers that can act independently, for both AA and Ground support.

Despite my feelings about Necrons working with Grey Knights, this does fill a hole in the list.  On the other hand, I can take a Stormraven for 205 points, with 4 missiles (although 90% they suck, I have sniped HQ with them), a TL assault cannon, and a Multi-Melta.

The Night Scythes are costing me about 195 (65 for the unit + 100 for the Scythe + 30 for 1/3 of the overlord) each, for basically 2 autocannons and 2 scoring units who won't die if the plane blows up.

I already have access to cheap troops, and 10 points is worth a MM, rending, and an extra point of armor (and I save myself the money of buying 3 Necron fliers), so I probably won't go with this incarnation of Necron allies, although I want to note that even though I don't think these Necrons bring anything to my list, they don't take anything away either - I think this would be a pretty competitive list, if I already had some Necrons, and wanted to branch into Grey Knights.

Tuning my GK all shunt list part 3 - Allies

So, I am comparing my shunt list to my "should be able to deal with list" and this is what I get:

AV 12 - Psycannons, Storm hammers, dreadknight punch - Check

50 Man Blogs with fearless/ATSKNF - Lots of stormbolter, 3 heavy incerators, DK can also probably
              assault if need by, and slow them down - Check

3-5 Rhinos - Psycannons, str 5 storm bolters, dreadknight punch, hammers - Check

Deep Strikings - Warp Quake, the ability to put most of my own army into deepstrike - Check

Invulnerable saves - losts of shots - Check, the most that can be done, short of gimmick power

ADL - 3 shunting heavy incinerators - Check

4 Scoring units - 3-6 (with Grand Strategy) - Check

Flyers - Psycannons needing 6's, ability to shunt / deep strike behind them - Limited

Overall, this list is pretty solid, in terms of tools to deal with whatever comes.  If I was going to add allies, I would need to boil this list to its core, to see if allies actually bring anything to the table.

GK Grand Master
2 x 10 GKSS with psybolt ammo, 2 Psycannons, 1 Hammer, Justifier with Halberd.
3x Dreadknights with 2 power fists, personal teleport, heavy incinerator.
____________
1390

This is the core of the army, it is the minimum legal army that has all of the tools of the original list (warp quake, str5 bolters, psycannons, 2-5 Scoring, shunting DK with heavy incinerators).  The point of this is to determine if I can spend 610 points better than the original list, or if I should stay pure GK.

Even if I stay all GK, I am probably taking the GKIS squad out, and add a fully buffed Stormraven (Assualt Cannon, MM, Sponsons with Str 5 hurricane bolters) in its place, so what I am really seeing is if I can spend 700 points on allies and do better than adding another GKSS, adding Psycotroke Grenades to Grand Master, and putting him with something like 6 purifiers (5 falchions and a hammer) in a pimped out Stormraven - which gives me some AA and another way to deal with blobs (and someone to put my GM with that can actually fight), and letting my whole army start in reserves except the NDK - hmm, actually I am liking that 610 points a lot, although it means I'm going to have to dig out some hurricane bolters to assemble....

Grey Knight Interceptor Squad - Tuning my GK all Shunt list part 2

So, based on my previous posts, my shunt list is looking something like:

GK Grand Master - Sword, Incinerator, Psychotroke Grenades
3x10 GKSS with Psybolt, 2 psycannons, 1 hammer, and Knight with Halberd
1x10 GKIS with Psybolt, 2 psycannons, 1 hammer, and knight with halberd
3x Dreadknights with 2 Power fists, heavy incinerator, personal teleporter

Hmm, GKIS.... Why am I paying so many points for these?  Because they can teleport with the Dread Knights, and get right in the enemy's face.  The thing is, they have a range of 24",  they are not awesome at assault, so they really don't gain very much by being closer than 24", and most times they can make their normal 6" and be within 24" - and anytime I wouldn't be (because the enemy is playing the range game, I can accomplish the same thing by deep striking the GKSS.

If I used Grand Strategy to make them scoring, I could jump them for last turn objective grabbing or I could use them for last turn objective contesting, which gives them some flexibility, and the difference between the GKSS and an identically outfitted GKIS is 60 points, so with Grand Strategy, it might be worth it, otherwise probably not.

Tuning my GK all Shunt List, Part 1

So, I took my Shunt List to the tournament, and did pretty well with it, but there were some things that could be better.  This is what I had.

ADL with Icaras Las Cannon
2x 1 Inquisitor with Prescience
3x 10 Strike Squads, 1 hammer, 2 psycannons, SGT with Halberd, Psybolt ammo
1x 10 GK Intercept Squad
3x NDK with teleporters and Heavy Incinerators

While the alpha strike worked pretty well, and in several of the games, most of the action took place in my enemy's deployment zone.  While this was intentional, it meant that basically almost half of my army was fighting almost all of the enemy's army.

To get more out of my army, I need to either increase the range of the backfield, or I need to not have a backfield.  

Moving Everything Up

The 2 GKSS I typically leave behind is are an easy fix - hold them in reserve and deep-strike.  This leaves about 195 points (2 inquisitors and an ADL with Icarus Las Cannon) to move up.

195 Points is not enough to add allies, especially since I am going to need a HQ.  Since I need mobility to keep up with the rest of my army, I am going to need Terminator armor (for deep-strike), since none of our HQ can take   personal teleporters (hey GW, each unit type is supposed to be led by a brotherhood champion, what about GKIS....)

Mordrak - almost enough points for him, and he is an interesting choice because he would give me:
+  Grand Strategy, 
+  Another unit of turn 1 punch, along with NDK and GKIS.  
+  Psychic communion to help bring all my deep-strike units 
-   I would have to make big changes to include is retinue though, and without any special weapons, I'm not sure  
       they are worth it anyway (6 more storm bolters and charge threat are good, but I don't think they represent 
       400 points of good, and Mordrak without Ghost knights is practically giving away "Slay the Warlord", and 
       maybe "First Blood" as well.

Brother Captain-Stern is interesting but maybe TOO well-balanced.
+/- Re-roll is nice, giving it enemy is not
+/- Zone of Banishment could be a game changer, or not, but using it is almost certainly a suicide mission
+/- Psychic Communion is still good, won't be able to use it until turn 2, when, hopefully, most things are already 
        coming 

Grey-Knight Grandmaster is probably better then Stern.  No gimmicks, but solid performance, with enough points left over to include some war gear.
+ Grand Strategy - same as Mordak - make my NDK(s) scoring...
+/- Psychic Communion - Again, good, but turn 2 is a little late.
+ Cheap enough to add war gear (since there is only 20 points left after buying him, and there is very little I can 
        add to this list worthwhile for 20 points, may as well spend it on him)

With the sword already giving a 3+ invulnerable save in combat, there is no point upgrading the weapons, so maybe something like:

Grey Knight Grand Master with Psycotroke grenades and Incinerator - 195 Points.

Grey Knight Brother Captain is the same as Grey Knight Grandmaster, but cheaper, and without Grand Strategy.  Since there is really no units for 50 points either, it comes down to is - is 25 more points of war gear worth losing the ability to make NDK scoring?

KG Brother Captain with Psycotroke Grenades, Incinerator, Rad Grenades - with digital weapons and master-crafted sword - 195 points, also not bad.

Librarian
+ Psychic Hood to extra protection
+ Mastery Level 2
+/- Can take a teleport beacon, but if he deep-strikes, it won't do much good.
+ By taking Grey Knight powers, which mimic blessings, but are cast during different phases of the turn, so there 
          is no penalty for deep-striking.

Librarian with Sword, with Might of Titan, Sanctuary, The Shrouding, Vortex of Doom, Warp-Rift. Still 20 points left, lets say master craft the sword, add digital weapons, and 2 Servo Skulls.

Ordo Malleus Inquisitors make the list because they can also wear terminator armor, and can, therefore, deep-
         strike with the GKSS.
+ Cheap enough that I can have 2, with Psycannons.
-  Weak enough that putting them in forward moving units increases chance of giving enemy "slay the warlord"

2x Inquisitor with Terminator armor, Nemesis Force Hammer, Psycannon, Servo Skulls (3 and 2) = 175 Points.  With last 20 points, give all of the Sergeants master crafting on their Halberds.

Of these, I like the Grand-Master, who is a killer, and can make NDK scoring (cool, but I am not sure it is needed, since they can already contest pretty well, but every tool creates options....); the Librarian who kills almost just as well as the Brother-Captain, but adds a different type of utility, and the Inquisitors, who are a little weak, but add 2 psycannons, and 5 servo skulls (since there will be at least 3 deep-striking units) - probably in that order.

This is going to wrap up part 1, which is basically trading in an ADL and slow HQ for a HQ that can keep up with shunting and deep-striking army.  Eventually I am also going to think about buffing the list with allies and/or extending the range of the defense line, but both of these ideas will involve a lot more juggling of points (and extending the range of rear support still divides my army into two smaller chunks, so I will probably be looking at allies who can join the GK in the front for this particular army).