So, I think I have reached the point where I can no longer be productive in thinking about or talking about my shunt list. Only by playing it will I be able to add anything new to the discussion. I have decided on one of the two following lists:
The first one is:
GKGM with psyotroke grenades and incinerator
2x 10 GKSS with 2 Psycannons, 2 hammers, and justifier with halberd
2x 10 GKIS with 2 Psycannons, 2 hammers, and justifier with halberd
3x Dread Knights with heavy incinerator and teleporter
I realize that this list is weak against air, and against 3 dragons I will be forced to throw myself into melee. What I like about this list is that most of my stuff is fast. It can either jump, DS, or teleport - so I can be where I need to be. There is a bonus with the GKIS and the local tournament, because all of the games in the tournament have troops as additional kill points - so normally combat squading to take more objectives means making more potential points for my opponent. With GKIS, I can combat squad both of them (assuming an average grand strategy roll), and have 6 scoring units, while only presenting my enemy with 2 potential bonus points (like I said, still not sure GKIS worth it normally, but with grand strategy, they might be).
The second list has
GKGM with psycotroke grenades and master crafted psycannon
3x 10 GKSS with 2 psycannons, 2 hammers, and justifier with halberd
1 Stromraven with hurricane bolters, psybolt ammo, Assault cannons and MM
3x Dread Knights with heavy incinerator and teleporter
This list takes a flier against air. It also have 3 GKSS and no GKIS. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, GKSS can get where they need with deep strike, and I don't need to be much closer than 24" most of the time, so GKIS, while nice, probably aren't critical - Obviously I'll make the NDK scoring if need be.
I think both of these lists are pretty solid. My favor is leaning toward the top list, hitting hard and dominating the manuever phase, but I think the second one might be a little better against all-comers, because the flyer helps mitigate what might be a hard-counter to the first list.
Showing posts with label Grey Knights. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Grey Knights. Show all posts
Wednesday, May 8, 2013
Monday, May 6, 2013
Tuning my GK all shunt list part 3.1 Necron Allies
So, the first allies I am considering for my GK allies are Necrons. GK/Necron lists seem to do pretty well in tournaments. On the other hand, even though the fluff might support it, I really have a hard time with accepting that Grey Knights would work with Necrons.
Assuming that my Grey Knights would work with Necrons, the next question to answer is, do Necrons add anything to this specific list?
While there are a lot of possible Necron ally lists, the biggest gap in my Shunt list is anti-air, and Necron is the only army that lets me take 3 discrete aircraft. I can take 2 units of warriors, each with Night Scythe, and then a Doom Scythe.
This would give me 2 more scoring units, 3 flyers that can act independently, for both AA and Ground support.
Despite my feelings about Necrons working with Grey Knights, this does fill a hole in the list. On the other hand, I can take a Stormraven for 205 points, with 4 missiles (although 90% they suck, I have sniped HQ with them), a TL assault cannon, and a Multi-Melta.
The Night Scythes are costing me about 195 (65 for the unit + 100 for the Scythe + 30 for 1/3 of the overlord) each, for basically 2 autocannons and 2 scoring units who won't die if the plane blows up.
I already have access to cheap troops, and 10 points is worth a MM, rending, and an extra point of armor (and I save myself the money of buying 3 Necron fliers), so I probably won't go with this incarnation of Necron allies, although I want to note that even though I don't think these Necrons bring anything to my list, they don't take anything away either - I think this would be a pretty competitive list, if I already had some Necrons, and wanted to branch into Grey Knights.
Assuming that my Grey Knights would work with Necrons, the next question to answer is, do Necrons add anything to this specific list?
While there are a lot of possible Necron ally lists, the biggest gap in my Shunt list is anti-air, and Necron is the only army that lets me take 3 discrete aircraft. I can take 2 units of warriors, each with Night Scythe, and then a Doom Scythe.
This would give me 2 more scoring units, 3 flyers that can act independently, for both AA and Ground support.
Despite my feelings about Necrons working with Grey Knights, this does fill a hole in the list. On the other hand, I can take a Stormraven for 205 points, with 4 missiles (although 90% they suck, I have sniped HQ with them), a TL assault cannon, and a Multi-Melta.
The Night Scythes are costing me about 195 (65 for the unit + 100 for the Scythe + 30 for 1/3 of the overlord) each, for basically 2 autocannons and 2 scoring units who won't die if the plane blows up.
I already have access to cheap troops, and 10 points is worth a MM, rending, and an extra point of armor (and I save myself the money of buying 3 Necron fliers), so I probably won't go with this incarnation of Necron allies, although I want to note that even though I don't think these Necrons bring anything to my list, they don't take anything away either - I think this would be a pretty competitive list, if I already had some Necrons, and wanted to branch into Grey Knights.
Saturday, May 4, 2013
Grey Knight Interceptor Squad - Tuning my GK all Shunt list part 2
So, based on my previous posts, my shunt list is looking something like:
GK Grand Master - Sword, Incinerator, Psychotroke Grenades
3x10 GKSS with Psybolt, 2 psycannons, 1 hammer, and Knight with Halberd
1x10 GKIS with Psybolt, 2 psycannons, 1 hammer, and knight with halberd
3x Dreadknights with 2 Power fists, heavy incinerator, personal teleporter
Hmm, GKIS.... Why am I paying so many points for these? Because they can teleport with the Dread Knights, and get right in the enemy's face. The thing is, they have a range of 24", they are not awesome at assault, so they really don't gain very much by being closer than 24", and most times they can make their normal 6" and be within 24" - and anytime I wouldn't be (because the enemy is playing the range game, I can accomplish the same thing by deep striking the GKSS.
If I used Grand Strategy to make them scoring, I could jump them for last turn objective grabbing or I could use them for last turn objective contesting, which gives them some flexibility, and the difference between the GKSS and an identically outfitted GKIS is 60 points, so with Grand Strategy, it might be worth it, otherwise probably not.
GK Grand Master - Sword, Incinerator, Psychotroke Grenades
3x10 GKSS with Psybolt, 2 psycannons, 1 hammer, and Knight with Halberd
1x10 GKIS with Psybolt, 2 psycannons, 1 hammer, and knight with halberd
3x Dreadknights with 2 Power fists, heavy incinerator, personal teleporter
Hmm, GKIS.... Why am I paying so many points for these? Because they can teleport with the Dread Knights, and get right in the enemy's face. The thing is, they have a range of 24", they are not awesome at assault, so they really don't gain very much by being closer than 24", and most times they can make their normal 6" and be within 24" - and anytime I wouldn't be (because the enemy is playing the range game, I can accomplish the same thing by deep striking the GKSS.
If I used Grand Strategy to make them scoring, I could jump them for last turn objective grabbing or I could use them for last turn objective contesting, which gives them some flexibility, and the difference between the GKSS and an identically outfitted GKIS is 60 points, so with Grand Strategy, it might be worth it, otherwise probably not.
Wednesday, May 1, 2013
Tuning my GK all Shunt List, Part 1
So, I took my Shunt List to the tournament, and did pretty well with it, but there were some things that could be better. This is what I had.
ADL with Icaras Las Cannon
2x 1 Inquisitor with Prescience
3x 10 Strike Squads, 1 hammer, 2 psycannons, SGT with Halberd, Psybolt ammo
1x 10 GK Intercept Squad
3x NDK with teleporters and Heavy Incinerators
While the alpha strike worked pretty well, and in several of the games, most of the action took place in my enemy's deployment zone. While this was intentional, it meant that basically almost half of my army was fighting almost all of the enemy's army.
To get more out of my army, I need to either increase the range of the backfield, or I need to not have a backfield.
Moving Everything Up
The 2 GKSS I typically leave behind is are an easy fix - hold them in reserve and deep-strike. This leaves about 195 points (2 inquisitors and an ADL with Icarus Las Cannon) to move up.
195 Points is not enough to add allies, especially since I am going to need a HQ. Since I need mobility to keep up with the rest of my army, I am going to need Terminator armor (for deep-strike), since none of our HQ can take personal teleporters (hey GW, each unit type is supposed to be led by a brotherhood champion, what about GKIS....)
Mordrak - almost enough points for him, and he is an interesting choice because he would give me:
+ Grand Strategy,
+ Another unit of turn 1 punch, along with NDK and GKIS.
+ Psychic communion to help bring all my deep-strike units
- I would have to make big changes to include is retinue though, and without any special weapons, I'm not sure
they are worth it anyway (6 more storm bolters and charge threat are good, but I don't think they represent
400 points of good, and Mordrak without Ghost knights is practically giving away "Slay the Warlord", and
maybe "First Blood" as well.
Brother Captain-Stern is interesting but maybe TOO well-balanced.
+/- Re-roll is nice, giving it enemy is not
+/- Zone of Banishment could be a game changer, or not, but using it is almost certainly a suicide mission
+/- Psychic Communion is still good, won't be able to use it until turn 2, when, hopefully, most things are already
coming
Grey-Knight Grandmaster is probably better then Stern. No gimmicks, but solid performance, with enough points left over to include some war gear.
+ Grand Strategy - same as Mordak - make my NDK(s) scoring...
+/- Psychic Communion - Again, good, but turn 2 is a little late.
+ Cheap enough to add war gear (since there is only 20 points left after buying him, and there is very little I can
add to this list worthwhile for 20 points, may as well spend it on him)
With the sword already giving a 3+ invulnerable save in combat, there is no point upgrading the weapons, so maybe something like:
Grey Knight Grand Master with Psycotroke grenades and Incinerator - 195 Points.
Grey Knight Brother Captain is the same as Grey Knight Grandmaster, but cheaper, and without Grand Strategy. Since there is really no units for 50 points either, it comes down to is - is 25 more points of war gear worth losing the ability to make NDK scoring?
KG Brother Captain with Psycotroke Grenades, Incinerator, Rad Grenades - with digital weapons and master-crafted sword - 195 points, also not bad.
Librarian
+ Psychic Hood to extra protection
+ Mastery Level 2
+/- Can take a teleport beacon, but if he deep-strikes, it won't do much good.
+ By taking Grey Knight powers, which mimic blessings, but are cast during different phases of the turn, so there
is no penalty for deep-striking.
Librarian with Sword, with Might of Titan, Sanctuary, The Shrouding, Vortex of Doom, Warp-Rift. Still 20 points left, lets say master craft the sword, add digital weapons, and 2 Servo Skulls.
Ordo Malleus Inquisitors make the list because they can also wear terminator armor, and can, therefore, deep-
strike with the GKSS.
+ Cheap enough that I can have 2, with Psycannons.
- Weak enough that putting them in forward moving units increases chance of giving enemy "slay the warlord"
2x Inquisitor with Terminator armor, Nemesis Force Hammer, Psycannon, Servo Skulls (3 and 2) = 175 Points. With last 20 points, give all of the Sergeants master crafting on their Halberds.
Of these, I like the Grand-Master, who is a killer, and can make NDK scoring (cool, but I am not sure it is needed, since they can already contest pretty well, but every tool creates options....); the Librarian who kills almost just as well as the Brother-Captain, but adds a different type of utility, and the Inquisitors, who are a little weak, but add 2 psycannons, and 5 servo skulls (since there will be at least 3 deep-striking units) - probably in that order.
This is going to wrap up part 1, which is basically trading in an ADL and slow HQ for a HQ that can keep up with shunting and deep-striking army. Eventually I am also going to think about buffing the list with allies and/or extending the range of the defense line, but both of these ideas will involve a lot more juggling of points (and extending the range of rear support still divides my army into two smaller chunks, so I will probably be looking at allies who can join the GK in the front for this particular army).
Monday, April 29, 2013
2000 point local tournament, with some less local guests..
There was another local tournament on Saturday, although this time we had some guests from some other local stores. Overall, I got second place - the tournament was based on points,so I never actually got to play the first place guy; I think I could have beat him, based on what I saw (he didn't have the tools to take my list), but he beat some stuff that I probably couldn't have taken (3 Heldrakes).
What was interesting about this tournament is that I got to see some armies I have never seen played before. My last game was against Black Templars (and I see why I probably haven't played them before, they were like ultra marines, but more expensive, and if they had any cool toys, this player didn't take them - other than putting POTMS on a vindicator.
Second place was sisters of battle. I didn't get to see much that final battle (Sisters went into final in second place, so they played the first place necrons), but what I did see was pretty impressive - although they suffered a massive loss (only 2 troop choices in a 5 objective game).
I was planning on bringing Blood Angels, or Marines, but ended up going with Grey Knights, since I couldn't decide on a list for more traditional marines - especially since the Grey Knights solved the army I lost to last game (all deep-striking monstrous creatures), with warp quake and force weapons.
I brought
ADL with Icaras Las Cannon
2x 1 Inquisitor with Prescience
3x 10 Strike Squads, 1 hammer, 2 psycannons, SGT with Halberd, Psybolt ammo
1x 10 GK Intercept Squad
3x NDK with teleporters and Heavy Incinerators
In all three games, I deployed with 2 squads of GKSS behind the ADL (with one model from each squad touching the gun) with an Inquisitor in each squad, and deep striked the last squad of GKSS.
I'll post more details later but, as usual, I forgot to take pictures.
What was interesting about this tournament is that I got to see some armies I have never seen played before. My last game was against Black Templars (and I see why I probably haven't played them before, they were like ultra marines, but more expensive, and if they had any cool toys, this player didn't take them - other than putting POTMS on a vindicator.
Second place was sisters of battle. I didn't get to see much that final battle (Sisters went into final in second place, so they played the first place necrons), but what I did see was pretty impressive - although they suffered a massive loss (only 2 troop choices in a 5 objective game).
I was planning on bringing Blood Angels, or Marines, but ended up going with Grey Knights, since I couldn't decide on a list for more traditional marines - especially since the Grey Knights solved the army I lost to last game (all deep-striking monstrous creatures), with warp quake and force weapons.
I brought
ADL with Icaras Las Cannon
2x 1 Inquisitor with Prescience
3x 10 Strike Squads, 1 hammer, 2 psycannons, SGT with Halberd, Psybolt ammo
1x 10 GK Intercept Squad
3x NDK with teleporters and Heavy Incinerators
In all three games, I deployed with 2 squads of GKSS behind the ADL (with one model from each squad touching the gun) with an Inquisitor in each squad, and deep striked the last squad of GKSS.
I'll post more details later but, as usual, I forgot to take pictures.
Tuesday, October 30, 2012
2000 GK vs IG
So, played IG, 2000 points. Game was Big Guns Never Tire, with Dawn of War Deployment - 5 objectives.
I was playing my fast Army with some AA added in (after the Chaos Debacle). I had 3 units of 10 Strike Squads (2 Hammers, 2 Psycannons, Halberd justifier, and Psybolt Ammo), 1 Intercept Squad (1 Hammer, 2 Psycannons, Halberd justifier, and Psybolt Ammo), 2 Dread Knights (teleporter and heavy incinerator), 1 Stormraven, 1 Psyrifleman Dread, Ordo Malleus in terminator armor with psycannon.
My opponent played something like 2 Leman Rus Executioners with multi-melta sponsons, 3 units of 2 vendettas, 2 Chimeras with veterans (I think there were 2 plasmas, a melta, and a Las Cannon in each), 1 Squad of 2 Basilisks. A command Squad of some kind (with the guy that lets them +1 to reserve roll), and a named character in the Leman Russ.
I combat squaded all the Strike Squads and put them in reserve (Which I later realized was illegal, as I forgot about the half-army thing). In the future, if I want 6 combat squads, I'll put 2 of the combat squads, with the inquisitor, in a raven, and then drop them off on the way in).
Turn 1 - Night Fighting - Grey Knights - I ended up with 3 objectives - I placed one in the back (with my Psyrifleman on it), and 2 along the river (close to the middle, so my 24" weapons can do something). I teleported each dreadknight toward a Leman Russ, and the interceptors into the crater in the middle of the enemy deployment zone. One dread knight managed to break a chimera with his incinerator and a lucky shot, the explosion killed 5 guard, and the rest were pinned down in the crater it left.
Turn 1 - Night Fighting - IG - The IG manage to kill the dread knight on the left - after using every other weapon in range, a lucky snap-shot with a las cannon on the move put the final wound on it. The other tank rolled around and managed to put 2 wounds on the dread. The artillery fired at my interceptors, but because of huge scatters, only killed 2 guys.
Score: GK 1 (First Blood), IG 1 (Killed Heavy)
 |
| Grey Knight Turn 1, after moving. My objectives are the dice shown (2 along the river, and 1 right behind the Dreadnought. Both of his objectives are behind the ruined towers (1 behind each - and they were both skyfire - mine were worthless, 1 was a bomb that killed 1 marine, the others were also insignificant) |
Turn 2 - GK - All but 2 of my combat squads came in, as well as my Storm Raven, which flies toward the Leman Russ on the left flank. My Dread Knight goes after my Basilisks (destroying 1 and stunning the other), and my interceptors go after the Leman Russ with the character, and Hammer it to death. I deep strike one squad near the crater of the chimera, and almost scatter off the board (had it been a 10 man squad they wouldn't have made it), but they manage to kill the IG hiding in the crater before they can shoot my dread knight. 1 Squad also landed near each of my objectives, and one landed near the left Leman Russ on the left (hoping for a lucky psycannon shot).
Turn 2 - IG - Only 1 of his Vendetta Squadrons came in (he only needed a 2), and fired at my Stormraven. He got 3 hits, but no penetrating shots. His Leman Russ killed the Strike Squad that landed in the crater. He got out of the other Chimera to fire at the Stormraven (he stretched the unit out so that he could claim the skyfire bonus from the objective, but since he had to move, he was snap shooting anyway that turn, and missed
Score - GK 2 (Killed Heavy), IG 1
 |
| Turn 2 Right Flank, GK before Assault |
 | ||
| Turn 2 Right Flank GK before assault |
Turn 3 - GK - Other units came in, dropped them both on right flank (so the vendettas already on couldn't get to them, and to claim his right objective - they both scattered way backwards though, so between that and the river, they would end about 1 turn short of making it his objective). My Stormraven flew off the board, as I couldn't move 18" and still hit anything. I moved toward my objectives (I didn't land right on them last turn). My Psyrifleman got 4 hits with the autocannons, and between that and the psycannons, took down both vendettas. The Interceptors mover toward the other Leman Russ, and take out the chimera with a psycannon on the move. The DreadKnight finishes off the last basilisk.
Turn 3 - IG - Only 1 squad of Vendettas made it on again, and they managed to kill my PsyrifleDread (despite his 3+ cover save - I guess I did have 1 good objective, + 1 to cover). He shoots some interceptors, trying to do enough wounds to take out the hammer, but he falls 1 short, and the hammer survives.
Score - GK 9 (Killed Heavy and 2 objectives), IG 5 (Killed another Heavy and 1 objective)
Turn 4 - GK - My interceptors shoots the veterans, killing enough that they are no longer on the objective. My Storm Raven comes is, and stuns one of the vendettas, but the Assault Cannon doesn't do anything (wish I had 25 points for Psybolt on that, but it's a lot of points to upgrade 1 weapon). I shoot a lot of psycannons at his vendettas, and destroy 1 of them, and glance the other one 2 times. my Dread Knight incinerates 4 of the 5 remaining veterans, and the survivor runs of the board.
Turn 4 - IG - His other flyers come on, and shoot at my stormraven, velocity locking it at full speed. His other vendetta kills a few marines in the river. I don't remember what his LR did, it might have been stunned or something, it may have killed some strike squad guys who were moving toward his left objective.
Score - GK 9, IG 2 (lost objective)
Turn 5 - Interceptors killed Leman Russ, Strike Squads run toward enemy objectives (but I think they both fell about 1-2" short of being within 3". I shoot at the vendettas, and take one of them down (which had his company command squad - killing about 9 of them, the survivor failed his leaderhip and ran off the board - I think). Stormraven flew off the board
Turn 5 IG - Vendettas killed some guys, 1 unit flew off the board.
Game ended.
Score - GK 10-11 (line breaker, probably slay the warlord, but wasn't tracking it), IG 2
 |
| GK Turn 4 |
He had some bad rolls early on, and I had some good rolls early on, but over all I am happy with this list. Besides the mistake of having too much in reserve, which will be solved by putting 3 "units" in the stormraven, I may have deployed badly. I have been setting up my dread knights so that they teleport after the biggest 2 threats. The problem is that, although I have gotten lucky, I am undermining my whole strategy of delivering a crippling blow because both times, the enemy had enough fire power within range of each dread knight to kill both of them before the charge. I should be deploying them together that way, even though I will only get 1 priority target, I am rendering at least part of his firepower inert (In his whole army, he probably has the fire power to kill 2 Dreads in 1 turn, but maybe not on 1 side of the board.
The interceptors were great. They took some fire power off my dreads, and they killed both Leman Russes.
Strike Squads, as always (except that time they charged a demon), delivered.
The Psyrifle Dread had a few really good rolls against enemy aircraft, and provided enough of a threat that he took 6 las cannon shots that might have pushed a squad off an objective, so I can't complain (it also might have been the dread, and not the interceptors, that killed the second chimera).
Stormraven - The melta provided a threat, and it survived, which meant it took a lot of airborn firepower off my troops (so even if it only shot down 1 plane, it kept the enemy planes occupied). To make it really shine against enemy air, I need to find 25 points, so that I can give the assault cannon str 7, but again, 25 points for 4 shots that aren't going to be on the board every turn might be a little too much.
Saturday, October 20, 2012
2000 Fast Jump Army to 3 Dread Knight Army
So, after the last tournament, I wanted to take the concept of 2 teleporting dread knights, and turn it up. So I made the following list:
1 Ordo Malleus Inquisitor with termie armor and psycannon
3 GKSS (10 Man, 2 psycannon, 2 hammers, justifier with halberd, psybolt ammo)
2 GK Interceptors (10 man, 2 psycannon, 2 hammers, justifer with halberd, psybolt ammo
2 Dread Knights (Heavy Incinerators, personal teleporters)
Although this army got tabled on turn 6, I think that was more to playing errors. Against chaos, especially with heldrakes, I think combat squadding is a mistake (now). Additionally, he bubble wrapped his units with cultists, which was good idea, but I probably could have (should have) ignored them, since the 5+ cover save doesn't matter against chaos. This list has the ability to put so many units in the enemy's face on turn 1, that he is playing catch up the rest of the game. It didn't work out this time, because I was afraid of the counter charge, but it turns out that the characters (with deamon weapons) are the only real threats - getting charged by any of the cultist marines turned out to not be a big deal - considering we have so may AP 3 power weapons.
If I had taken this army to the tournament, I think I would have won (instead of taking second), but after my last game, my chaos friend is looking at 2 Daemon Princes, and at least 2 Heldrakes, whereas 1 of each tore this army apart, so I want to keep the same theme, but add some anti-air, and maybe beef up my Daemon Prince Protection a little, without losing the "in your face" aggressiveness.
First, the interceptor squads - I like them, and they did well, but they are 325 points each, and I need to free up points for air defense, so I cut both of those and the servo skull, giving me 655 points.
I buy 2 Storm Ravens, equipped with TL MM and TL Assault Cannons. This Leaves me with 245 Points.
I buy another Dread Knight (with Heavy Incinerator and Teleporter), to up my Daemon Protection and to help cover the hole left by the 2 intercept squads I lost. This leaves me with 10 points. I am thinking that I want to be able to boost my reserve rolls, so I want to make my inquisitor a Psyker. This puts me 20 points in the hole, which I cover by dropping Psybolt ammo on 1 squad (the squad the Inquisitor is going to).
I could take Coteaz instead, which would give me re-rolls, the ability to use, we've been expecting you, and a chance to re-roll for steal the initiative - but being able to control when my stuff comes in might be more valuable, as I can push my troops back, or make sure that my flyers come in after his....
I will look into it more, but right now I am looking at:
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor Psyker with Termie armor and psycannon
3 10 Man Strike Squads (2 hammers each, 1 halberd justifier each, 2 psycannons each, and 2 of the units
have psybolt ammo)
2 Stormravens (TL MM and TL Assault Cannons)
3 Dread Knights with Heavy incinerators and Personal teleporters
Good anti-air, good durability / disruption with Dread Knights, and 3-6 decent scoring units, that can deep strike in.
1 Ordo Malleus Inquisitor with termie armor and psycannon
3 GKSS (10 Man, 2 psycannon, 2 hammers, justifier with halberd, psybolt ammo)
2 GK Interceptors (10 man, 2 psycannon, 2 hammers, justifer with halberd, psybolt ammo
2 Dread Knights (Heavy Incinerators, personal teleporters)
Although this army got tabled on turn 6, I think that was more to playing errors. Against chaos, especially with heldrakes, I think combat squadding is a mistake (now). Additionally, he bubble wrapped his units with cultists, which was good idea, but I probably could have (should have) ignored them, since the 5+ cover save doesn't matter against chaos. This list has the ability to put so many units in the enemy's face on turn 1, that he is playing catch up the rest of the game. It didn't work out this time, because I was afraid of the counter charge, but it turns out that the characters (with deamon weapons) are the only real threats - getting charged by any of the cultist marines turned out to not be a big deal - considering we have so may AP 3 power weapons.
If I had taken this army to the tournament, I think I would have won (instead of taking second), but after my last game, my chaos friend is looking at 2 Daemon Princes, and at least 2 Heldrakes, whereas 1 of each tore this army apart, so I want to keep the same theme, but add some anti-air, and maybe beef up my Daemon Prince Protection a little, without losing the "in your face" aggressiveness.
First, the interceptor squads - I like them, and they did well, but they are 325 points each, and I need to free up points for air defense, so I cut both of those and the servo skull, giving me 655 points.
I buy 2 Storm Ravens, equipped with TL MM and TL Assault Cannons. This Leaves me with 245 Points.
I buy another Dread Knight (with Heavy Incinerator and Teleporter), to up my Daemon Protection and to help cover the hole left by the 2 intercept squads I lost. This leaves me with 10 points. I am thinking that I want to be able to boost my reserve rolls, so I want to make my inquisitor a Psyker. This puts me 20 points in the hole, which I cover by dropping Psybolt ammo on 1 squad (the squad the Inquisitor is going to).
I could take Coteaz instead, which would give me re-rolls, the ability to use, we've been expecting you, and a chance to re-roll for steal the initiative - but being able to control when my stuff comes in might be more valuable, as I can push my troops back, or make sure that my flyers come in after his....
I will look into it more, but right now I am looking at:
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor Psyker with Termie armor and psycannon
3 10 Man Strike Squads (2 hammers each, 1 halberd justifier each, 2 psycannons each, and 2 of the units
have psybolt ammo)
2 Stormravens (TL MM and TL Assault Cannons)
3 Dread Knights with Heavy incinerators and Personal teleporters
Good anti-air, good durability / disruption with Dread Knights, and 3-6 decent scoring units, that can deep strike in.
Power of Chaos
I just played a 2000 game with DK against Chaos. Although I was winning, I ended up being tables on turn 6. We both thought that the Demon Prince of Nurgle had FNP and +1 Toughness, so He would have died the first time my DK punched him (so I might not have been tabled), but this isn't about that, because it doesn't change the fact that one demon prince and one heldrake destroyed 5-6 units of marines by themselves. This is about building lists that can deal with that kind of power.
Since this isn't a battle report, I'm not going to go turn by turn, but just the general themes. By the end turn 2 (I went first), we both thought the game was over - I had 2 optional KP in relic, and I had decimated most of his units, but my opponent wanted to keep playing, to test out the other units (the lord on the bike rolled horribly, and died to DK, which probably shouldn't have happened.)
When his demon came in on turn 2 and flew to my backfield, I thought, no problem. I shot it, and did a wound, and made it crash, then I charged it with a terminator inquisitor and a 5 man strike squad - not the killiest thing in the game, but lots of demonbane weapons... that never got to go. He had the black mace and, being a monstrous creature, had slam (ap 2). This means that at initiative 8, he did 11 AP 2 wounds, wiping out the squad. On his turn, the demon wiped out another squad, and then got tied up with both my dreadknights for the rest of the game (which would have killed him the first turn had we realized he was T 5).
So - what to do about Demon Princes, who can kill whole squads of power armor (and maybe even terminator armor) in one turn? We only have 1 model with a Storm Shield, although even he is probably not making 11 saves. They don't have grenades, so the best thing to do is going to be make them charge you through cover, then your demon bane weapons have a chance of doing their job. Maybe psycotroke grenades need to make a come back. Dread Knights are skill good against them - if they survive long enough to attack, but if they fly, they can make can make it difficult for the Dread Knight to catch them in melee. Full size units (no combat squads) might also make sure I get a chance to take a swing at the demon.
The Heldrake - I knew when I first read the codex that these were going to be game changers, I see no reason not to take 3 of these, but at least 2, in any competitive army. Granted, I was combat squaded, in order to have more units able to go for the objective, and most combat squads had been whittled down to 2 or 3 guys, but the heldrake killed 3 combat squads in 4 turns. Until there is a faq, apparently torrent flamer doesn't have an arc of fire although this made absolutely no difference in our game - with only 3 guys, its hard to spread them out so that all 3 won't fit under a template, and then it's wound on 2, no armor or cover save. Other than having more anti air - keeping units of 10 will help against the flamer - but that is still only 1 heldrake, and I'm going to take at least 2 in any Chaos list I make, so I am almost going to HAVE to take something other than psycannons and a prayer to shoot down enemy aircraft.
We are more than a match for cultist marines, and cultists - so just need to think of a way to keep air defense alive - thinking a bastion and crusaders....
Since this isn't a battle report, I'm not going to go turn by turn, but just the general themes. By the end turn 2 (I went first), we both thought the game was over - I had 2 optional KP in relic, and I had decimated most of his units, but my opponent wanted to keep playing, to test out the other units (the lord on the bike rolled horribly, and died to DK, which probably shouldn't have happened.)
When his demon came in on turn 2 and flew to my backfield, I thought, no problem. I shot it, and did a wound, and made it crash, then I charged it with a terminator inquisitor and a 5 man strike squad - not the killiest thing in the game, but lots of demonbane weapons... that never got to go. He had the black mace and, being a monstrous creature, had slam (ap 2). This means that at initiative 8, he did 11 AP 2 wounds, wiping out the squad. On his turn, the demon wiped out another squad, and then got tied up with both my dreadknights for the rest of the game (which would have killed him the first turn had we realized he was T 5).
So - what to do about Demon Princes, who can kill whole squads of power armor (and maybe even terminator armor) in one turn? We only have 1 model with a Storm Shield, although even he is probably not making 11 saves. They don't have grenades, so the best thing to do is going to be make them charge you through cover, then your demon bane weapons have a chance of doing their job. Maybe psycotroke grenades need to make a come back. Dread Knights are skill good against them - if they survive long enough to attack, but if they fly, they can make can make it difficult for the Dread Knight to catch them in melee. Full size units (no combat squads) might also make sure I get a chance to take a swing at the demon.
The Heldrake - I knew when I first read the codex that these were going to be game changers, I see no reason not to take 3 of these, but at least 2, in any competitive army. Granted, I was combat squaded, in order to have more units able to go for the objective, and most combat squads had been whittled down to 2 or 3 guys, but the heldrake killed 3 combat squads in 4 turns. Until there is a faq, apparently torrent flamer doesn't have an arc of fire although this made absolutely no difference in our game - with only 3 guys, its hard to spread them out so that all 3 won't fit under a template, and then it's wound on 2, no armor or cover save. Other than having more anti air - keeping units of 10 will help against the flamer - but that is still only 1 heldrake, and I'm going to take at least 2 in any Chaos list I make, so I am almost going to HAVE to take something other than psycannons and a prayer to shoot down enemy aircraft.
We are more than a match for cultist marines, and cultists - so just need to think of a way to keep air defense alive - thinking a bastion and crusaders....
Thursday, October 18, 2012
Dreadknight
So, I've gotten some games in with the Dreadknight. Prior to 6th edition, no one would take these, because they felt that the Psyrifle Dread was a better use of the slot. While the Psyrifle Dread is still good, and one of best air defense Grey Knights have, the Dreadknight has been a game changer for me in every game I've taken them.
Bell of Lost Souls made a list of things your Army needs to be able to deal with in 6th, it has to be able to score, deal with light mech spam, deal with hordes, deal with heavy infantry, counter flyers, counter death starts, and counter heavy vehicles. These are the roles I am assessing the Dreadknight for.
Scoring - Only with the help of a Grand Master. As a scoring unit, they are hard to get cover for, and only have 4 wounds. While they might be durable at end game (where a lot of big weapons have been destroyed), most of the time I would rather have 5-10 models that can go to ground if need be.
Light Mech Spam - Good. Str 10, with smash, makes them reliable anti-mech (should be able to kill 1 a turn fairly reliably. If given the Heavy Psycannon or the Heavy Incinerator, can also pop light mech at range.
Hordes - Decent, better with incinerator upgrade. The incinerator can take out a lot of hordes, and ignores cover. The Dread Knights toughness is high enough that most hordes are going to need 6's to wound (unless poison). Additionally, as a character, the DK can issue a challenge and likely take out the leader of the horde (the one most likely to have a weapon that can hurt it). Still only 4 attacks, so while it can hold up a horde, it will take the DK a long time to smash through a horde in melee - but with a personal teleporter and a Heavy Incinerator...
Heavy Inf - Good. AP 2, str 10, will crush most heavy infantry, except terminators with storm shields and hammers, and special melee characters.
Counter flyer - Weak. If the DK takes a gatling psilencer, and manages to get behind a flyer (with rear armor 10) the DK can provide some AA threat (with 12 S 4 shots), but not a good plan
Counter Deathstar - Decent. It really depends on the death star, lots of low AP, High strength hits, especially coupled with decent invuln saves, are going to give the DK problems. Chaos lords, who go before init 4 with AP 2 weapons, characters with eternal warrior, etc will give DK problems. But if the DK goes faster, and the character does not have eternal warrior, the DK has a decent chance.
Heavy Vehicles - Good - Taking a personal teleporter makes sure you get there, but once you are there, you should no problem using smash (which is only costing you 1 attack because according to the faq, you halve your attacks before applying modifiers - so you start with 3, go to 2 for smash (round up), +1 for charge, + 1 for 2 power fist or powerfist and sword) to put 2-3 glances / penetrating on armor 13-14.
While you can take a Dk without teleporter, especially since they can deep strike, I use them as my main anti-tank. Their mission is to put pressure, on turn 1, on anything that is threat to my marines (AP 3 templates, massed fire from lootas, etc). Then I go for anything that my Psycannons are going to have trouble with (land raiders, monoliths, etc), then I go for whatever else.
Equipping the Dread Knight:
Personal Teleporter: As I have said, to put hard pressure on tanks and artillery early, you need a personal teleporter - but by the time you take 2 of them, you could have almost bought a 3rd Dread. While you could use them as counter charge unit, and run them alongside you infantry, maybe with a heavy psycannon, I think there are cheaper ways to get psycannons. The ability to teleport next to your enemy on turn 1, especially with 2 of these, pretty much destroys the enemy's plan, and forces him to fight on your terms. The Dread Knight can teleport, so you can put turn 2 pressure on his stuff (and maybe knowing that you could deep strike into his deployment zone will mess him up just as much).
Heavy Psycannon: Not bad in that it gives you a str 7 rending large template. While this could be devastating, it could scatter, and against small units / single vehicles, it is less effective than a normal psycannon. Not a bad choice, but I don't think the best.
Heavy Incinerator - This is the best. Not only is this the cheapest ranged weapons, but it never misses, it ignores cover, and is almost as powerful as the Psycannon (except for the occasional rend).
Gatling Psilencer - Mostly No. 12 Str 4 shots that always wound deamons on a 4. Str 6 and 7 also generally wounds demons on 4. It can be effective as a second gun, against hordes, but it is AP -, so you figure, on average, after misses and saves (5+ armor or cover), you are looking at killing 1-2 xenos a turn). This is the only weapon DK can use to hit enemy aircraft, if it has rear armor 10, and if the DK can get behind it.
2 Power fists - Extra attack, S 10, free. This is how I do it.
Power fist + Sword - Still get an extra attack, and Str 10, and get to re-roll to hit, to wound and armor penetrate - for 25 points. This is a pretty good deal, and the sword looks cool, but usually if I have 25 points, I'll give a unit Psybolt ammo instead.
Power fist + hammer - NO. You are still S 10, but you lose an attack for concussive, which doesn't do anything against vehicles anymore, and anything that is going to survive a S 10 hit is probably already going at initiative 1.
I like running 2 of these, with incinerators and teleporters. On turn 1, they can clear a battlement, clear an aegis defense line, position themselves to take out artillery, flame lootas. Be careful not to teleport right next to his counter charge unit, or his plasma spam unit (unless you think you can flamer them down in 1 attack), but the enemy will almost have to reverse some of his aggressive units, to deal with these.
Bell of Lost Souls made a list of things your Army needs to be able to deal with in 6th, it has to be able to score, deal with light mech spam, deal with hordes, deal with heavy infantry, counter flyers, counter death starts, and counter heavy vehicles. These are the roles I am assessing the Dreadknight for.
Scoring - Only with the help of a Grand Master. As a scoring unit, they are hard to get cover for, and only have 4 wounds. While they might be durable at end game (where a lot of big weapons have been destroyed), most of the time I would rather have 5-10 models that can go to ground if need be.
Light Mech Spam - Good. Str 10, with smash, makes them reliable anti-mech (should be able to kill 1 a turn fairly reliably. If given the Heavy Psycannon or the Heavy Incinerator, can also pop light mech at range.
Hordes - Decent, better with incinerator upgrade. The incinerator can take out a lot of hordes, and ignores cover. The Dread Knights toughness is high enough that most hordes are going to need 6's to wound (unless poison). Additionally, as a character, the DK can issue a challenge and likely take out the leader of the horde (the one most likely to have a weapon that can hurt it). Still only 4 attacks, so while it can hold up a horde, it will take the DK a long time to smash through a horde in melee - but with a personal teleporter and a Heavy Incinerator...
Heavy Inf - Good. AP 2, str 10, will crush most heavy infantry, except terminators with storm shields and hammers, and special melee characters.
Counter flyer - Weak. If the DK takes a gatling psilencer, and manages to get behind a flyer (with rear armor 10) the DK can provide some AA threat (with 12 S 4 shots), but not a good plan
Counter Deathstar - Decent. It really depends on the death star, lots of low AP, High strength hits, especially coupled with decent invuln saves, are going to give the DK problems. Chaos lords, who go before init 4 with AP 2 weapons, characters with eternal warrior, etc will give DK problems. But if the DK goes faster, and the character does not have eternal warrior, the DK has a decent chance.
Heavy Vehicles - Good - Taking a personal teleporter makes sure you get there, but once you are there, you should no problem using smash (which is only costing you 1 attack because according to the faq, you halve your attacks before applying modifiers - so you start with 3, go to 2 for smash (round up), +1 for charge, + 1 for 2 power fist or powerfist and sword) to put 2-3 glances / penetrating on armor 13-14.
While you can take a Dk without teleporter, especially since they can deep strike, I use them as my main anti-tank. Their mission is to put pressure, on turn 1, on anything that is threat to my marines (AP 3 templates, massed fire from lootas, etc). Then I go for anything that my Psycannons are going to have trouble with (land raiders, monoliths, etc), then I go for whatever else.
Equipping the Dread Knight:
Personal Teleporter: As I have said, to put hard pressure on tanks and artillery early, you need a personal teleporter - but by the time you take 2 of them, you could have almost bought a 3rd Dread. While you could use them as counter charge unit, and run them alongside you infantry, maybe with a heavy psycannon, I think there are cheaper ways to get psycannons. The ability to teleport next to your enemy on turn 1, especially with 2 of these, pretty much destroys the enemy's plan, and forces him to fight on your terms. The Dread Knight can teleport, so you can put turn 2 pressure on his stuff (and maybe knowing that you could deep strike into his deployment zone will mess him up just as much).
Heavy Psycannon: Not bad in that it gives you a str 7 rending large template. While this could be devastating, it could scatter, and against small units / single vehicles, it is less effective than a normal psycannon. Not a bad choice, but I don't think the best.
Heavy Incinerator - This is the best. Not only is this the cheapest ranged weapons, but it never misses, it ignores cover, and is almost as powerful as the Psycannon (except for the occasional rend).
Gatling Psilencer - Mostly No. 12 Str 4 shots that always wound deamons on a 4. Str 6 and 7 also generally wounds demons on 4. It can be effective as a second gun, against hordes, but it is AP -, so you figure, on average, after misses and saves (5+ armor or cover), you are looking at killing 1-2 xenos a turn). This is the only weapon DK can use to hit enemy aircraft, if it has rear armor 10, and if the DK can get behind it.
2 Power fists - Extra attack, S 10, free. This is how I do it.
Power fist + Sword - Still get an extra attack, and Str 10, and get to re-roll to hit, to wound and armor penetrate - for 25 points. This is a pretty good deal, and the sword looks cool, but usually if I have 25 points, I'll give a unit Psybolt ammo instead.
Power fist + hammer - NO. You are still S 10, but you lose an attack for concussive, which doesn't do anything against vehicles anymore, and anything that is going to survive a S 10 hit is probably already going at initiative 1.
I like running 2 of these, with incinerators and teleporters. On turn 1, they can clear a battlement, clear an aegis defense line, position themselves to take out artillery, flame lootas. Be careful not to teleport right next to his counter charge unit, or his plasma spam unit (unless you think you can flamer them down in 1 attack), but the enemy will almost have to reverse some of his aggressive units, to deal with these.
Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Paladin Configuration
I am pretty happy with my list, but I am thinking that I can tweak my
Paladin squad a little bit. I was looking for some feedback on a couple
of ideas (all of the paladin configurations fill the same roll, but for
reference, my base army is Draigo + Paladins (10 Paladins, 4 master
crafted psycannons, apothecary), 2 GKSS (SGT with Halberd, 2 hammers, 2
psycannons, psybolt), and 2 Dread Knights (teleporters and Heavy
incinerators).
I am thinking that 10 Paladins have been effective as they are but, since they are 1000 of my 2000 points, I want to give them a little more versatility.
I have come up with 4 ideas that will make them better, and maybe more versatile.
1. Drop a Paladin and master craft on psycannons. Use those points to buy a Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in terminator armor, with a psycannon, and psyker 1 (to give myself the reroll to hit power).
Gain - Same number of bodies, twin linked shooting, can still deep strike squad if I need to
Loss- 1 less psycannon, can't combat squad (not that I plan on it)
2. Drop Paladin and Master Craft on Psycannons, get coteaz
Gain: Get 2 psyker powers (1 will be re-roll to hit), ability to re-roll steal initiative, and "I've been
expecting you."
Loss: 2 Psycannons, can't combat squad, can't deep-strike
3. Drop Apothecary, master crafting on psycannons, and a hammer (from a GKSS), and get the same Ordo Mallues Inquisitor
Gain: 5 Psycannons (twin-linked), deep strike, combat squad
Loss: Feel no Pain
4. Drop Apothecary, master crafting on psycannons, and a hammer (from a GKSS), and get Coteaz
Gain:still have 4 Psycannons (Twin linked), can still combat squad, steal initiative, and "I've been expecting you."
Loss: No deep strike, no feel no pain.
I am thinking number 3 might be over-kill (I honestly haven't had a problem shooting things to death as is, but I am thinking that a psyker with divination will give me an anti-air boost).
I think all 5 of these configurations are pretty solid, and am looking for input from other people.
I guess, a 6th option, of I am considering Coteaz, is to take a normal inquisitor, without terminator armor. A Ordo Inquisitor psyker (with 1 power) is 55 points. If I don't buy terminator armor, I could buy psycotroke grenades and the plasma syphon, and still some points to upgrade weapons - although cool, not sure the grenades are worth it, since my Paladins haven't seen melee yet, although I haven't really played a melee centric army yet either.
I am thinking that 10 Paladins have been effective as they are but, since they are 1000 of my 2000 points, I want to give them a little more versatility.
I have come up with 4 ideas that will make them better, and maybe more versatile.
1. Drop a Paladin and master craft on psycannons. Use those points to buy a Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in terminator armor, with a psycannon, and psyker 1 (to give myself the reroll to hit power).
Gain - Same number of bodies, twin linked shooting, can still deep strike squad if I need to
Loss- 1 less psycannon, can't combat squad (not that I plan on it)
2. Drop Paladin and Master Craft on Psycannons, get coteaz
Gain: Get 2 psyker powers (1 will be re-roll to hit), ability to re-roll steal initiative, and "I've been
expecting you."
Loss: 2 Psycannons, can't combat squad, can't deep-strike
3. Drop Apothecary, master crafting on psycannons, and a hammer (from a GKSS), and get the same Ordo Mallues Inquisitor
Gain: 5 Psycannons (twin-linked), deep strike, combat squad
Loss: Feel no Pain
4. Drop Apothecary, master crafting on psycannons, and a hammer (from a GKSS), and get Coteaz
Gain:still have 4 Psycannons (Twin linked), can still combat squad, steal initiative, and "I've been expecting you."
Loss: No deep strike, no feel no pain.
I am thinking number 3 might be over-kill (I honestly haven't had a problem shooting things to death as is, but I am thinking that a psyker with divination will give me an anti-air boost).
I think all 5 of these configurations are pretty solid, and am looking for input from other people.
I guess, a 6th option, of I am considering Coteaz, is to take a normal inquisitor, without terminator armor. A Ordo Inquisitor psyker (with 1 power) is 55 points. If I don't buy terminator armor, I could buy psycotroke grenades and the plasma syphon, and still some points to upgrade weapons - although cool, not sure the grenades are worth it, since my Paladins haven't seen melee yet, although I haven't really played a melee centric army yet either.
Monday, October 8, 2012
GK vs IG - 2000 points
Using the same GK army as last battle report, I faced IG. We rolled big guns never tire and vanguard, but since we had just played vanguard, and setting it up is such a hassle, we re-rolled and got short table edges. This was a good test for my army, because I had a lot of distance to cover, against an army that severely out ranged me (a situation I struggled with when I played IG in 5th).
The IG had:
Bastion with quad gun
Company command squad (with astropath and the the one that subtracts 1 from my reserve roll), and las
cannon and meltagun
2 Basilisks (1 squad)
2 Leman Russ - Str 10, AP 1 gun (not squaded)
3 squads of 2 Vendettas
1 Chimera with Vets (3 melta guns)
1 Squad of Vets with Las Cannon (probably melta, but they never got to shoot) - on the battlements
Marbo
There were 3 objectives, and he got to place 2 of them, so he placed one in each of his corners, and put a Leman Russ on 1, and his basilisks on the other. I placed mine in a ruins that blocked line of site from his side of the board (so he would have to move some ground forces in to flush them out). I put my other 3 combat squads in reserve, and put my Paladins in the middle.
He had turn 1, and it was night fighting. Using Grand Tactics, I a dread knight to some ruins for cover close to his basilisks, but I got too close to the edge of the ruins - so at least half of army could see me clearly. Because he lined up so far back, and it was night, they only thing he could shoot at was the scouted DK. It took 2 wounds. On my turn, I moved up my Paladins (trying to hug some mid-field cover - which turned out to be a mistake the way I did it). I used my 30" teleport on both DK, 1 toward the basilisk, one toward the LR on the objective (the other LR was behind the basilisk, next to the chimera). Since I knew I wasn't going to be able to charge, I jumped toward the heavies, but also so that I was within 12 of the bastions. 2 Heavy Incinerators destroyed the quad gun, and killed all but 1 veteran, who failed his leadership and jumped off the battlement (and died). Giving me first blood.
Score: GK 4 (1 objective + Fist Blood), IG 6 (2 objectives)
On turn 2 he brought all his guys in (his warlord roll gave him a re-roll for reserves, and he was coming in on 2+ because of the astropath). His flyers all lined up on my Paladins, and Marbo landed right behind them. My mistake in using cover, was that it was front cover, and Draigo was in the front, so the vedettas focused fire on the Paladins not in cover (which means I couldn't use Draigo's SS or Eternal warrior. I made some good saves, and he rolled four 1's to wound out of 5 hits from 1 squadron, so I lost 4-5 Paladins. He fired almost everything else he had into the dread knight threatening the basilisks, and killed it.
My Paladins moved up and fired at this flyers, but maybe glanced one. 2 of my strike squads came in, so I dropped 1 in the back to shoot Marbo, and 1 near the Basilisks, since I the DK had been killed, and I really wanted to knock them out (since it was the only thing that could push me off my objective without him moving ground forces in - and he didn't have enough ground forces to do that). My surviving Dread Knight killed a Leman Russ. I also moved Draigo, so that he was out of cover, and 2 Paladins into cover. This was another mistake, because the 2 paladins in cover were closer to 4 of the vendettas than Draigo, and the 5+ cover was no better than their Invuln save anyway.
Score: GK 5 (+1 for killing a heavy), IG 4 (lost an objective, killed a heavy)
Turn 3 - He vendettas killed the 2 Paladins I put in cover, and put a few wounds on Draigo. His Artillery hit my objective holders, and got 6 hits, but they went to ground, and only 3 of them died. He killed my Strike Squad that was threatening the Basilisks, and everything that was left went after my dread, who took 2 more wounds.
My last strike squad failed to come in again. My Dread knight jumped over and killed his other Leman Russ. My Paladins moved up. The SS that went after Marbo moved toward my objective - since I was not going to be able to shut down his artillery, I wanted some more bodies on it.
Score: GK 6 (+1 for killing another heavy), IG 4.
Turn 4. He shot my Paladins down to 3, one of his vendetta squads fired on the SS going to support my objective (since I had to run across the open street, I had no cover, and lost 5 guys). His artillery missed my 2 guys on the objective, both templates scattering more than 5 inches. He got out of his Chimera to shoot at my Dread Knight, but some bad rolls and some good saves saw my DK survive with 1 wound still left. (He actually got out of the Chimera last turn, I think to get shots on my SS, so that they wouldn't get cover, but his Chimera still would). He ran 2 of his vendetta squads into reserve.
I jumped my DK over to assault his Basilisk. Since they are right up against the wall, he says I can't charge them, because they can't fit in base. I am fine with that (although in retrospect, I think that if you can move through walls, you can assault through walls, if both the attacker and defender are within 1" of the wall), so I flame his veteran squad, and kill a lot of them, they break and run off the table. My last SS comes in, and I gamble big, deep striking on the objective the LR had been covering. I am Deep Striking into cover, between a wall (although I could have been on both sides of the wall) and a LR, and less than 4" from the table edge. I get a hit, and then run - claiming the objective. I also manage to glance one of the basilisks with my paladins, making it unable to shoot (since it can't snap shot a template weapon)
Score: GK 9 (+3 for Objective), IG 4.
Turn 5. His vendetta squads come back on and kill Draigo, and 1 of my paladins. His 1 artillery shot misses. He finished off my Dread Knight.
I don't do anything significant, but we roll and the game ends.
Score GK 10 (+1 for line breaker), IG 6 (+2 for killing a heavy and a warlord)
This game was close, because had my deep strike gamble not paid off, we would have tied at 6.
Lessons.
This game reinforced the usefulness of jump pack on dread knight. The ability to threaten things that can threaten my Paladins on turn 1 is very useful. They are also durable enough to take a decent amount of fire, as long as I am moderately careful with placement. The only problem with being there on turn 1, is that they are there alone. I think they would be a nice compliment to Mordrak - but that would be a different army.
Paladins. When playing short edges, I might be better off deep striking these guys, although maybe not, as without their presence on the board, all of the vendetta would have fired on my DK, and probably had destroyed them, so even though they didn't do much, walking the long walk, they did make it so that my DK could do a lot. I will have to think about it, and it will also depend on how the enemy sets up.
Strike Squad still doing fine. Deep Striking, durable objective holders, that can do enough damage that they are dangerous to ignore. What's not to like?
The IG had:
Bastion with quad gun
Company command squad (with astropath and the the one that subtracts 1 from my reserve roll), and las
cannon and meltagun
2 Basilisks (1 squad)
2 Leman Russ - Str 10, AP 1 gun (not squaded)
3 squads of 2 Vendettas
1 Chimera with Vets (3 melta guns)
1 Squad of Vets with Las Cannon (probably melta, but they never got to shoot) - on the battlements
Marbo
There were 3 objectives, and he got to place 2 of them, so he placed one in each of his corners, and put a Leman Russ on 1, and his basilisks on the other. I placed mine in a ruins that blocked line of site from his side of the board (so he would have to move some ground forces in to flush them out). I put my other 3 combat squads in reserve, and put my Paladins in the middle.
He had turn 1, and it was night fighting. Using Grand Tactics, I a dread knight to some ruins for cover close to his basilisks, but I got too close to the edge of the ruins - so at least half of army could see me clearly. Because he lined up so far back, and it was night, they only thing he could shoot at was the scouted DK. It took 2 wounds. On my turn, I moved up my Paladins (trying to hug some mid-field cover - which turned out to be a mistake the way I did it). I used my 30" teleport on both DK, 1 toward the basilisk, one toward the LR on the objective (the other LR was behind the basilisk, next to the chimera). Since I knew I wasn't going to be able to charge, I jumped toward the heavies, but also so that I was within 12 of the bastions. 2 Heavy Incinerators destroyed the quad gun, and killed all but 1 veteran, who failed his leadership and jumped off the battlement (and died). Giving me first blood.
Score: GK 4 (1 objective + Fist Blood), IG 6 (2 objectives)
On turn 2 he brought all his guys in (his warlord roll gave him a re-roll for reserves, and he was coming in on 2+ because of the astropath). His flyers all lined up on my Paladins, and Marbo landed right behind them. My mistake in using cover, was that it was front cover, and Draigo was in the front, so the vedettas focused fire on the Paladins not in cover (which means I couldn't use Draigo's SS or Eternal warrior. I made some good saves, and he rolled four 1's to wound out of 5 hits from 1 squadron, so I lost 4-5 Paladins. He fired almost everything else he had into the dread knight threatening the basilisks, and killed it.
My Paladins moved up and fired at this flyers, but maybe glanced one. 2 of my strike squads came in, so I dropped 1 in the back to shoot Marbo, and 1 near the Basilisks, since I the DK had been killed, and I really wanted to knock them out (since it was the only thing that could push me off my objective without him moving ground forces in - and he didn't have enough ground forces to do that). My surviving Dread Knight killed a Leman Russ. I also moved Draigo, so that he was out of cover, and 2 Paladins into cover. This was another mistake, because the 2 paladins in cover were closer to 4 of the vendettas than Draigo, and the 5+ cover was no better than their Invuln save anyway.
Score: GK 5 (+1 for killing a heavy), IG 4 (lost an objective, killed a heavy)
Turn 3 - He vendettas killed the 2 Paladins I put in cover, and put a few wounds on Draigo. His Artillery hit my objective holders, and got 6 hits, but they went to ground, and only 3 of them died. He killed my Strike Squad that was threatening the Basilisks, and everything that was left went after my dread, who took 2 more wounds.
My last strike squad failed to come in again. My Dread knight jumped over and killed his other Leman Russ. My Paladins moved up. The SS that went after Marbo moved toward my objective - since I was not going to be able to shut down his artillery, I wanted some more bodies on it.
Score: GK 6 (+1 for killing another heavy), IG 4.
Turn 4. He shot my Paladins down to 3, one of his vendetta squads fired on the SS going to support my objective (since I had to run across the open street, I had no cover, and lost 5 guys). His artillery missed my 2 guys on the objective, both templates scattering more than 5 inches. He got out of his Chimera to shoot at my Dread Knight, but some bad rolls and some good saves saw my DK survive with 1 wound still left. (He actually got out of the Chimera last turn, I think to get shots on my SS, so that they wouldn't get cover, but his Chimera still would). He ran 2 of his vendetta squads into reserve.
I jumped my DK over to assault his Basilisk. Since they are right up against the wall, he says I can't charge them, because they can't fit in base. I am fine with that (although in retrospect, I think that if you can move through walls, you can assault through walls, if both the attacker and defender are within 1" of the wall), so I flame his veteran squad, and kill a lot of them, they break and run off the table. My last SS comes in, and I gamble big, deep striking on the objective the LR had been covering. I am Deep Striking into cover, between a wall (although I could have been on both sides of the wall) and a LR, and less than 4" from the table edge. I get a hit, and then run - claiming the objective. I also manage to glance one of the basilisks with my paladins, making it unable to shoot (since it can't snap shot a template weapon)
Score: GK 9 (+3 for Objective), IG 4.
Turn 5. His vendetta squads come back on and kill Draigo, and 1 of my paladins. His 1 artillery shot misses. He finished off my Dread Knight.
I don't do anything significant, but we roll and the game ends.
Score GK 10 (+1 for line breaker), IG 6 (+2 for killing a heavy and a warlord)
This game was close, because had my deep strike gamble not paid off, we would have tied at 6.
Lessons.
This game reinforced the usefulness of jump pack on dread knight. The ability to threaten things that can threaten my Paladins on turn 1 is very useful. They are also durable enough to take a decent amount of fire, as long as I am moderately careful with placement. The only problem with being there on turn 1, is that they are there alone. I think they would be a nice compliment to Mordrak - but that would be a different army.
Paladins. When playing short edges, I might be better off deep striking these guys, although maybe not, as without their presence on the board, all of the vendetta would have fired on my DK, and probably had destroyed them, so even though they didn't do much, walking the long walk, they did make it so that my DK could do a lot. I will have to think about it, and it will also depend on how the enemy sets up.
Strike Squad still doing fine. Deep Striking, durable objective holders, that can do enough damage that they are dangerous to ignore. What's not to like?
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| Turn 5 - Lone Paladin facing 4 Vendettas (the other 2 finished of the DK) |
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| Strike Squad that won the game. I deep striked onto the white triangle, and then ran to my current position. We moved it, but the LR was just off the bottom of the picture. |
GK vs Necron, 2000 points
Played a game against my normal Necron opponent. It was 2000 points, Big Guns Never Tire, Vanguard Deployment. This is the first time I have played Grey Knights since 6th edition, and I wanted to try Paladins (which I have never used before). My list was:
Draigo
10 Paladins with Apothecary, 4 Master Crafted Psycannons, 3 hammers, 2 swords, every one else had a Halberd.
2 units of Strike Squads (10 Men) with 2 Psycannons, 2 Hammers, Justicar with Halberd and psybolt ammo
2 Dread Knights, with Teleporters and Heavy Incinerators.
The Necrons (from memory) had
Immotek
Necron Over Lord
6 Crypteks (4 with Abyssal Staffs, 2 with timestop?(lets you re-roll 1 die every phase)
3 units of warriors (I think 20, 10 and 10)
A Bastion with Quad Gun
2 Flyer Transports
2 Flyers with Death Ray
2 units of Death Marks
I combat squaded the Strike Squads, and put them in Deep Strike. Necrons had a unit of 20 warriors, with the overlord, and a re-roll cryptek on the ground, and a unit of 10 troops with immotek on the battlements of the bastion. (Later he remembered his other unit of troops and walked them onto the board). He also had the Deathmarks in the flying transports, each squad with 2 crypteks with Abyssal Staffs)
I didn't take pictures of every turn; the first two pictures are the set up.
I scouted my Paladins up (using my Grand Strategy). It was dark automatically because of Immotek, and his shooting did not do any damage. I charged up, and teleported both Dread Knights forward and flamed stuff - unfortunately, his overlords with the closest models to both dread knights, so while I got a total of 10 wounds, only 1 of them cleared the 2+ Armor Save.
Turn 2, still night - his lightning doesn't kill anything. I knew what was coming, so I had spread out my Paladins. Both of this transports come in, and they drop next to my paladins. After marking my Paladins with the Deathmarks, he hits my Paladins with the Abyssal Staffs. Previously, this move had decimated my death starts (Str 8, AP 1 template that targets leadership, but wounds on 2 because of death mark). Because I was spread out, he got about 3 knights per template, so a total of 6 hits for each of the 2 units). Draigo took 5 on his Storm Shield, and passed them all. I lost 1 Paladin on the other side. I was encouraged, since this could have been the death blow to my small army.
On my turn 2, I deep strike 3 of my combat squads in, which do some shooting, but don't make a huge impact. My Paladins are set up to charge both units of death marks, but I shoot 1 squad, and obliterate it, so I can't charge. I charged on of my dread knights into his unit of 20 Necons, and challenge, which he accepts with his overlord. His cheering section let him re-roll a failed save, and neither of us inflict a would the first round of combat.
Turn 3. His other death ray comes in, and I let him line up 4 paladins, 3 of which die because of instant death. On the melee challenge, I inflict 3 wounds, and he fails 1, and the re-reroll. This causes him to lose by 2, and he fails - and his 20 man warrior squad runs of the table. My other Dread attacked the Bastion, although I am not sure why I bothered (failed to damage it anyway). My other combat squad drops in, and hits his transport twice - once with rending, he decides to evade. My Paladins shoot his other death marks to death.
Turn 4, He comes out of the tower with immotek and warriors, and flys 3 of his flyers off the board (they were out of targets on that side of the board.
I move my dread knight to intercept those coming out of the tower. Between the shooting of a heavy incinerator and the squad that dropped into his corner, I killed 5 warrior before immotek could start blocking
bullets, but Immotecks squad broke, and carried him with them off the board.
Turn 5, nothing special, some shooting, his last squad took the last wound of my dread knight. I tried to move my SS pictured above to the objective in those ruins, but couldn't make it. In the end, I had 2 objectives, first blood, warlord, 1 killed heavy and line breaker. He had 1 objective, kill the warlord, 2 killed heavies.
This might be hard to follow, because I was really tired when I wrote most of it, and it was 2 days later, so I may not have accounted for every death, but the general idea is there.
As far as what learned:
Draigo is a machine, and the Paladins are a rock. I was worried about putting so many points into one unit, but they took a lot of punishment, and put out so much fire power that they can't be ignored. I was a little concerned about their lack of speed, but when playing long table edges, giving them scout lets them start shooting on turn 1 (and their shooting was devastating). I could't test their melee, because they shot everything off the board before charging (this makes me think that maybe I could lower the squad size, and take some more support, but not yet)
The Dread Knights. I have 3, so I seriously considered taking all 3, and leaving off the Personal Teleporters. I think for now I am going to keep them. Being able to get way into enemy deployment zone on turn 1 is great. I was able to provide threats to take pressure off my Paladins. Also, when my Strike Squads came in deep, a lot of his shooting resources were tied up (Although this didn't stop him from using his 4 flyers to take out almost 2 squads. The dreads were my primary anti-tank (rending psycannons is the back up), but based on my attacks on the building, I am still going to struggle with land raiders and other 14 all around vehicles.
The Strike Squads. I can't really complain. They took out 1 flyer, they held 2 objectives, and helped shoot a unit off the board. Being able to deep strike is great. In 5 man squads, they have decent firepower (especially with psybolt ammo), but they are still marines, and 5 of them get shot up pretty badly in the open.
Draigo
10 Paladins with Apothecary, 4 Master Crafted Psycannons, 3 hammers, 2 swords, every one else had a Halberd.
2 units of Strike Squads (10 Men) with 2 Psycannons, 2 Hammers, Justicar with Halberd and psybolt ammo
2 Dread Knights, with Teleporters and Heavy Incinerators.
The Necrons (from memory) had
Immotek
Necron Over Lord
6 Crypteks (4 with Abyssal Staffs, 2 with timestop?(lets you re-roll 1 die every phase)
3 units of warriors (I think 20, 10 and 10)
A Bastion with Quad Gun
2 Flyer Transports
2 Flyers with Death Ray
2 units of Death Marks
I combat squaded the Strike Squads, and put them in Deep Strike. Necrons had a unit of 20 warriors, with the overlord, and a re-roll cryptek on the ground, and a unit of 10 troops with immotek on the battlements of the bastion. (Later he remembered his other unit of troops and walked them onto the board). He also had the Deathmarks in the flying transports, each squad with 2 crypteks with Abyssal Staffs)
I didn't take pictures of every turn; the first two pictures are the set up.
Turn 2, still night - his lightning doesn't kill anything. I knew what was coming, so I had spread out my Paladins. Both of this transports come in, and they drop next to my paladins. After marking my Paladins with the Deathmarks, he hits my Paladins with the Abyssal Staffs. Previously, this move had decimated my death starts (Str 8, AP 1 template that targets leadership, but wounds on 2 because of death mark). Because I was spread out, he got about 3 knights per template, so a total of 6 hits for each of the 2 units). Draigo took 5 on his Storm Shield, and passed them all. I lost 1 Paladin on the other side. I was encouraged, since this could have been the death blow to my small army.
On my turn 2, I deep strike 3 of my combat squads in, which do some shooting, but don't make a huge impact. My Paladins are set up to charge both units of death marks, but I shoot 1 squad, and obliterate it, so I can't charge. I charged on of my dread knights into his unit of 20 Necons, and challenge, which he accepts with his overlord. His cheering section let him re-roll a failed save, and neither of us inflict a would the first round of combat.
Turn 3. His other death ray comes in, and I let him line up 4 paladins, 3 of which die because of instant death. On the melee challenge, I inflict 3 wounds, and he fails 1, and the re-reroll. This causes him to lose by 2, and he fails - and his 20 man warrior squad runs of the table. My other Dread attacked the Bastion, although I am not sure why I bothered (failed to damage it anyway). My other combat squad drops in, and hits his transport twice - once with rending, he decides to evade. My Paladins shoot his other death marks to death.
Turn 4, He comes out of the tower with immotek and warriors, and flys 3 of his flyers off the board (they were out of targets on that side of the board.
bullets, but Immotecks squad broke, and carried him with them off the board.
Turn 5, nothing special, some shooting, his last squad took the last wound of my dread knight. I tried to move my SS pictured above to the objective in those ruins, but couldn't make it. In the end, I had 2 objectives, first blood, warlord, 1 killed heavy and line breaker. He had 1 objective, kill the warlord, 2 killed heavies.
This might be hard to follow, because I was really tired when I wrote most of it, and it was 2 days later, so I may not have accounted for every death, but the general idea is there.
As far as what learned:
Draigo is a machine, and the Paladins are a rock. I was worried about putting so many points into one unit, but they took a lot of punishment, and put out so much fire power that they can't be ignored. I was a little concerned about their lack of speed, but when playing long table edges, giving them scout lets them start shooting on turn 1 (and their shooting was devastating). I could't test their melee, because they shot everything off the board before charging (this makes me think that maybe I could lower the squad size, and take some more support, but not yet)
The Dread Knights. I have 3, so I seriously considered taking all 3, and leaving off the Personal Teleporters. I think for now I am going to keep them. Being able to get way into enemy deployment zone on turn 1 is great. I was able to provide threats to take pressure off my Paladins. Also, when my Strike Squads came in deep, a lot of his shooting resources were tied up (Although this didn't stop him from using his 4 flyers to take out almost 2 squads. The dreads were my primary anti-tank (rending psycannons is the back up), but based on my attacks on the building, I am still going to struggle with land raiders and other 14 all around vehicles.
The Strike Squads. I can't really complain. They took out 1 flyer, they held 2 objectives, and helped shoot a unit off the board. Being able to deep strike is great. In 5 man squads, they have decent firepower (especially with psybolt ammo), but they are still marines, and 5 of them get shot up pretty badly in the open.
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